Realisations, and the some.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 03/05/2000 2:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

aoclery writes:

> First of all I am a pretty fearless type of person,

> much to my disadvantage in the past. Secondly if

> someone didn't throw an occasional spanner on these

> lists, we would all be buried in mountain of verbal,

> self congratulatory, intellectual shit and fantasies.

> I see no evidence at all of 'realised people on any of

> these lists', if they are there then they aren't

> writing, which is what I would expect.

 

This only goes to prove that you get what you expect.

Certainly your expectations are merely beliefs

based on your perceptions that have been stabilized

to your particular expectation belief.

> I see no evidence of anything higher than the

> manomayakosa/mind.

 

No wonder! Get your butt outta manomayakosa/mind

and maybe a whole new world will appear.

(Not that I know what manomayakosa/mind means,

but it sounds like something you are not wanting in us, or yourself.)

>I just see the usual intellectual

> crap directed at discussing spirituality, instead of

> charity or politics that's all. I saw it when I was a

> manual laborer and I saw it when I was poor, I see it

> again now.

 

Only goes to show how much your perceptions have opened up

since you were a poor manual laborer.

> I am not realised, but going by the standard on here,

> I must be in sahaja all the time. I have seen this

> mental activity before when intellectual people are

> slumming or helping the poor etc. It is also

> dangerous for neophytes to believe certain people are

> 'realised', as evidenced from some of the post on

> here.

 

Would it also be equally dangerous for neophytes to believe

certain people are unrealized, as evidenced from some

of the posts here?

> " Most people who claim to have experienced the Self

> have not even taken their minds near to the entrance

> of the Heart-Cave. And even if the mind does go into

> the Heart, there is still an 'I', which is

> experiencing the Bliss of the Self. The true

> experience of the Self only happens when the mind is

> completely absent, either temporarily, as in samadhi,

> or permanently, as in Self Realisation. Both of these

> experiences are extremely rare.

> It is very difficult to make the mind go into the

> Heart. Mostly it is too afraid of its own death to

> even approach the entrance. The mental experiences of

> peace, bliss and stillness which devotees claim to

> experience usually take place outside the Heart. They

> are all in the mind.

 

Maybe this is where we get confused. The mind is the heart.

>

> People who think that these experiences are the

> Reality of the Self are only deluding themselves.

> "Mathru Sri Sarada…………A Realised Jivanmukti!!!and

> devotee in the line of Ramana Maharshi.

>

> So lets get real!!!!

 

Yes! Let's!

>I would like to use these lists

> as a help instead of a yardstick for the wrong

> track/bogmire.

 

If that would be your desirous purpose for the list,

then make that your purpose for the list.

You don't need us for that. :-)

We all have our own purposes.

>I don't write this for any other

> reason than that I wrote it. I do not care what other

> people's opinions of me are at all, or whether you

> think I am arrogant.

 

I've found when I'm in that "I don't care'' attitude,

it's when I've placed a wall around me to protect me

from some fearful thought I have grasped on to and

don't want to look at.

 

Maybe or maybe not that this is the case with you.

You may just be arrogant. :-)

 

I always enjoy your inchanting posts Tony. I'm glad you are here.

 

Much Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 03/05/2000 3:33:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

leteegee writes:

 

<<

I always enjoy your inchanting posts Tony. I'm glad you are here.

 

Much Love,

xxxtg

>>

I'm glad you're here TeeGee :-) perhaps we can only see in

others what we have in ourselves, it is the mirror capacity...

 

i loved your mystical experience description...

i find it difficult to stay motivated when my kundalini fires,

do you have this problem? I get so blissed, it's like 'who cares?'

 

So, today's cares were left until tomorrow, but perhaps the

energy creates more harmonious movement?

 

Oh, well, it's a great excuse to spend the day blissed *g*

 

Love,

me

[Guest guest]

At 03:32 PM 3/5/00 EST, leteegee wrote:

>No wonder! Get your butt outta manomayakosa/mind

>and maybe a whole new world will appear.

>(Not that I know what manomayakosa/mind means,

>but it sounds like something you are not wanting in us, or yourself.)

 

Just wanted to say, xxxtg, that this post brought many smiles to my face!

 

Love,

 

--Greg

[Guest guest]

>Rainbolily

>

>In a message dated 03/05/2000 3:33:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>leteegee writes:

>

><<

> I always enjoy your inchanting posts Tony. I'm glad you are here.

>

> Much Love,

> xxxtg

>

> >>

>I'm glad you're here TeeGee :-) perhaps we can only see in

>others what we have in ourselves, it is the mirror capacity...

>

>i loved your mystical experience description...

>i find it difficult to stay motivated when my kundalini fires,

>do you have this problem? I get so blissed, it's like 'who cares?'

>

>So, today's cares were left until tomorrow, but perhaps the

>energy creates more harmonious movement?

>

>Oh, well, it's a great excuse to spend the day blissed *g*

>

>Love,

>me

>

Hi there, Anna-Maria Spaghetti-toes,

 

Yes, yes, yes... you are so right. Some days a body just can't even think

straight for grinning, but Ahh, such love!! Simply filled with gratitude to know

such people as are here. What to say, how to say it, to explain this or

that..what does it all matter or mean compared to this love? And I meant to but

forgot to tell teegee!! please do see the movie American Beauty, for that one

line I remember towards the end where someone says, "It's hard to stay mad, when

there is so much beauty in the world."

 

And then teegee does this very thing for me with her answer to Tony. I admit I

was first all sad and even a bit mad, feeling, oh Tony, please listen

better..you did not hear us..but then teegee gets me laughing about us all,

stepping on each other's toes, and tripping over our own feet of clay .... and

you know suddenly I see a new Tony, my dear fearless, sweet, Tony..he wants to

be my protector..my knight in shining armor is here!! And it is all love, even

our mistakes and misunderstandings and failures to communicate. So when I see

this way, and I simply know all the love that is sent here each and every day

with every post that is written, and compared to the beauty of this what does

the rest matter?

 

Yes, so glad we are all here.

 

Love, Glo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 03/05/2000 7:10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Rainbolily writes:

> I'm glad you're here TeeGee :-) perhaps we can only see in

> others what we have in ourselves, it is the mirror capacity...

 

No wonder it's seven years bad luck to break a mirror...

I'm very happy you are here too!

> i loved your mystical experience description...

> i find it difficult to stay motivated when my kundalini fires,

> do you have this problem? I get so blissed, it's like 'who cares?'

 

To tell you the truth, I have not had one day of bliss since 94. :-( But if

this helps, I find it difficult to stay motivated anyway!

> So, today's cares were left until tomorrow, but perhaps the

> energy creates more harmonious movement?

> Oh, well, it's a great excuse to spend the day blissed *g*

 

Definitely! I miss those good ol blissful days. How much fun they were!

The past year or so, I've been getting days of quiet instead -- a very quiet

mind -- it's so wonderful not having all those thoughts bungling up other

thoughts. It doesn't feel blissful... just very quiet. (hoorayyy!) The

bliss made me feel very loving towards others. This is different. I feel no

love in the same sense, just quiet. I have no idea what it is but I like it.

It is more functional than the bliss state where I would get lost in bliss

for days. Or maybe it is another form of bliss? I don't know...

 

Follow your bliss!

Love,xxxtg

[Guest guest]

Dear Tony,

 

Received your message loud and clear. Thank you for that.

 

I must apologise to you and others who feel the same as you about everyone

on this list that we are only jappering intellectual garbage. I have tried,

on quite a few occasions to remind everyone of the importance of sharing our

personal practice and life's experiences in the context of this way. So if

you feel that I have also let genuine enquiry pass me by in my presentations

I have obviously failed to make myself loud and clear.

 

So let me join hands with you and state categorically that I find not much

enquiry, or even a spirit of enquiry about our practices, methods,

difficulties along the way, subtlety and tentativity of investigation, the

stuff we are most likely battling with in our own hearts and minds etc. I

find a dominance of certainty. Statements long on explaning ultimate

'reality', but bitterly short on the processes involved in getting us

there. Are we shy to admit that we are still battling with aspects the

'lower' end of this path? Or not quite 'there'? Yet? What makes us so

reticent to deal with who and what we ARE, and to share this path and our

personal enquiries, failings and struggles on all levels of our daily

living, in the mutual loving atmosphere of this Satsangh? I have asked

these questions before. Very weak response patterns on this one.

 

Speak, everyone, Speak! Reveal yourselves.

 

Love , Moller.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tony O'Clery <aoclery

nondualitysalon <nondualitysalon >

Cc: < >

05 March 2000 09:01

Realisations, and the some.

 

 

Tony O'Clery <aoclery

 

Namaste All, Larry,Bruce, Gloria, Dharma,

 

First of all I am a pretty fearless type of person,

much to my disadvantage in the past. Secondly if

someone didn't throw an occasional spanner on these

lists, we would all be buried in mountain of verbal,

self congratulatory, intellectual shit and fantasies.

 

I see no evidence at all of 'realised people on any of

these lists', if they are there then they aren't

writing, which is what I would expect.

 

I see no evidence of anything higher than the

manomayakosa/mind. I just see the usual intellectual

crap directed at discussing spirituality, instead of

charity or politics that's all. I saw it when I was a

manual laborer and I saw it when I was poor, I see it

again now.

 

I am not realised, but going by the standard on here,

I must be in sahaja all the time. I have seen this

mental activity before when intellectual people are

slumming or helping the poor etc. It is also

dangerous for neophytes to believe certain people are

'realised', as evidenced from some of the post on

here.

 

" Most people who claim to have experienced the Self

have not even taken their minds near to the entrance

of the Heart-Cave. And even if the mind does go into

the Heart, there is still an 'I', which is

experiencing the Bliss of the Self. The true

experience of the Self only happens when the mind is

completely absent, either temporarily, as in samadhi,

or permanently, as in Self Realisation. Both of these

experiences are extremely rare.

 

It is very difficult to make the mind go into the

Heart. Mostly it is too afraid of its own death to

even approach the entrance. The mental experiences of

peace, bliss and stillness which devotees claim to

experience usually take place outside the Heart. They

are all in the mind.

 

People who think that these experiences are the

Reality of the Self are only deluding themselves.

"Mathru Sri Sarada…………A Realised Jivanmukti!!!and

devotee in the line of Ramana Maharshi.

 

So lets get real!!!! I would like to use these lists

as a help instead of a yardstick for the wrong

track/bogmire. I don't write this for any other

reason than that I wrote it. I do not care what other

people's opinions of me are at all, or whether you

think I am arrogant.

 

 

>Tony, I see you are interested in mantra. What is

mantra? What is its

special power? How does it work? Is it primarily an

entrance to

samadhi?

What is its relationship to mudra?

Larry<

Larry I am not an expert but I will try.

Mantra or mind tools, as opposed to material tools or

yantras, are sounds that attract their corresponding

vibration, spiritually. For example I find if I use

the word Maya, as Ma and Ya. Ya does nothing for me,

whereas I get a feeling of the Kundalini rising from

repeating Ma, Ma, Ma.

 

Sanskrit is a 'perfected', language and was

contrived for use spiritually. The words are sounds

that pre-exist the words. As for mudras this has to

do with directing energy flows in the body and subtle

bodies. All these things are for an aid to

spirituality. They don't work for logs, one must be

making an attempt.

 

I use two mantras constantly, Om Namah Sivaya, for

japa. And the Gayatri for other things.

 

Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.

 

 

 

=====

http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm

 

ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,

THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,

MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.

OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.

 

 

Talk to your friends online with Messenger.

http://im.

 

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//

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal

Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously

arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

 

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