Guest guest Posted March 5, 2000 Report Share Posted March 5, 2000 Please send as a DIGEST, as Onelist responds to efforts to change with SERVER ERROR < > < > Monday, March 06, 2000 9:36 AM Digest Number 539 >------ >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates >as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. >Apply NOW! >http://click./1/975/3/_/520931/_/952310189/ >------ >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > >------ > >There are 25 messages in this issue. > >Topics in today's digest: > > 1. New Website > umbada > 2. NDS Home Page > umbada > 3. Re: Law of Resonance > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > 4. Home Page > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > 5. Jan's Wisdom > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > 6. Re: KKT: Who am I? > David Hodges <dhodges > 7. Re: Certainty, Worthiness & Stuff (Moller/Tg) > Rainbolily > 8. Re: Addiction/On the last "object" of science > Antoine <carrea > 9. Re: David/Who am I? > Antoine <carrea > 10. Re: Addiction/habit > Antoine <carrea > 11. Re: Who am I? > J M de la Rouviere <moller > 12. Realisations, and the some. > Tony O'Clery <aoclery > 13. Re: Addiction/habit > "geovani" <inandor > 14. Re: Who am I? > Victor Torrico <vtorrico > 15. freeheart story four: sunday > Eric Laing <elaing > 16. Re: Realisations, and the some. > leteegee > 17. Re: Realisations, and the some. > Greg Goode <goode > 18. Re: Addiction/habit/mystery > Antoine <carrea > 19. Re: David/Who am I? > Rainbolily > 20. Re: fear monster > "Silver Mouse" <silvermouse1 > 21. Re: Realisations, and the some. > Rainbolily > 22. Invitation to join "HeartWalk" > "Melody" <melody > 23. Re: Realisations, and the some. > "Gloria Lee" <glee > 24. Re: Anna Maria/Who am I? > Antoine <carrea > 25. Signs of Attention > "Gloria Lee" <glee > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 1 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:28:15 -0400 > umbada >New Website > >Excellent. Blessed by Nome. Thank you. > >Jerry > >Ceedent wrote: >> >> check out this new site http://www.presentnonexistence.com > > >_ >NONDUALITY SALON >Website >http://www.nonduality.com >Email Forum >//nondualitysalon >Chat >http://www.eScribe.com/religion/nondualitysalon/chat > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 2 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:28:24 -0400 > umbada >NDS Home Page > >Nonduality Salon Home Page > >Updated every day with a new quote, a new letter, and a new >article. > >http://www.nonduality.com > >You know what they say about hot rolls: come and get 'em > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 3 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:43:26 -0500 > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar >Re: Law of Resonance > >Thanks for this article Pieter. I will pass this on to . Please >feel free to join or invite others who share your unique gifts and abilities for >sharing Pieter. is a fellowship that gathers in the context of >amity, mutual respect, and nonviolence. We are not perfect but the next best >thing to it! :--). Just kidding. We are perfect! > >// > >Love >Harsha > >Pieter Schoonheim Samara wrote: > >> Law of Resonance: <http://www.natha.dk/frames1.htm> sent to me by Bogdan >> Mahalayananda of NATHA, a Tantric Yoga group in Finland and Denmark >> >> This is an interesting article to help understand Vivekananda's book Raja >> Yoga with its commentaries on Patenjali's Yoga Sutras. >> >> The various organs and centers of the body have their own inherent vibratory >> frequencies. When the mind, brought to stillness, can come into harmony >> with the inherent pranic vibration of these centers then one will become >> aware of the planes conscious these centers relate to and view and interact >> with the expanded vision of the concept "world" through the clear lenses of >> these planes. (This is the basis for siddhis or apparent miraculous >> powers.) >> >> Bringing the mind into a vibratory harmony requires that the mind becomes >> still and that the center is charged. Stillness of the mind means that the >> life force is not dissipated into the focusing of attention into the >> innumerable divergence of thoughts and sensations and takes the mind makes >> as it automatically tries to define itself around some identity, as in "I >> this and I that.." Therefore, the innate energy consciousness begins to >> build throughout the (undifferentiated) field of the body/mind. >> >> The practice of various types of yoga are meant to break up any resistance >> to the expansion of the field through the various planes. >> >> Various types of pranayamas open the natural polarization of the field, >> while kriyas help to change the organs and centers. >> >> Certain cleansing processes and diets will also purify and charge the organs >> and centers. In yoga, the practice of fasting and nauli kriya, as an >> example, has been to cleanse the colon and eliminate resistances in the >> expansion of the field. Today, this is similarly achieved through (2 weeks >> to a month of) fasting and colonics, followed by diets limited to fresh raw >> fruit and vegetable juices (to the strict exclusion of any meat, fish, fowl, >> bread and pastries), and certain beneficial herbs, and after some time raw >> vegetable and fruit salads. The organs and centers are naturally cleansed >> and charged. >> >> Kundalini is the natural barometer, rising under the pressure of the >> expanding field of energy-consciousness. >> >> Ultimately, the seer must be isolated, such that one abides in the source of >> the light that lights the field, apart from which the field has no >> existence, as that source (the Seer, the subject "I") is Existence Itself. >> >> Abiding without concepts is the natural state. It is the Truth that is in >> Itself the ultimate force of balance in the field, dissolving attention, >> while outshining the field. >> >> The practice of yoga and religion is hindered without this fundamental >> understanding of one's True nature, as what is sought is neither outside nor >> inside nor the integration of both. Abandoning all that is seen, one abides >> as the single seer, the Self. > > > > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 4 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:58:11 -0500 > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > Home Page > >The Cosmos is our Website! :--). > >You are invited to join . >We are not perfect. Just the next best thing to it! >If you are looking for fellowship >in the context of mutual respect, amity, humor (lots of that) and goodwill, > may be right for you. >Come to where the Siddhas roam and Jnanis play. >We hand out Enlightenment by the bundle. > >> // >> > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 5 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 08:09:30 -0500 > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar >Jan's Wisdom > >Eric Laing wrote: > >Harsha, > >> >> ZenListMaster, amongst other things :-), >> My Heart hears Yours! Yes, let us tell these >> Stories! >> >> I was drawn to write down >> something of mine own, recently. I would be >> honored to share with you Jerry. It is >> a work in progress. >> >> Let's just All share. >> >> Sharin' Project, >> freeheart >> > >Thanks Freeheart. Yes, I would encourage all to exercise their gift for sharing. Thank you Moller, TG, Eric, Greg, Dan, Gloria, Kimie, Dharma, Tony, Mira, David, Bo, Geovani, Roger, Dan, Jan, Roger, TG, Holly, Victor, Luan, Robert, James, Gloria, >Antoine, Joyce, Jill, Bruce, Tony, Jerry, Joyce and others for the recent posts. > >Here is something Jan wrote on NDS which some might find funny. > >there is a saying that often, wisdom comes from >the piles of dogshit one meets "on the path" and by >contemplating the dogshit, it is converted for "general use". >>From this perspective, the 8 major forms (comments within >brackets) of wisdom are: > >1. Convincing you dogshit isn't smelly or slippery (belief >required) >2. Providing shovels to clean the path from dogshit (lots of >"work") >3. Advising to stilt walk through it so one's shoes keep clean >(lots of practice) >4. Advising to keep a hungry pig that eats dogshit (but the >pig will shit) >5. Providing skis to slide through the shit effortless so the >journey is sportive and fun (lots of practice too) >6. Buying you a pair of binoculars so only the goal is seen >and one won't notice the shit (do nothing) >7. Giving a recipe to dry and process the shit so it can be >sold as fuel to lighten the path (love the light of $hit) >8. Advising to become a member of ASSHOLE (Associated Shit >Sweeping Holy Ones Loving Enlightenment) (Holy Shit!) > >Have fun, > >Jan > > > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 6 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:02:57 -0500 > David Hodges <dhodges >Re: KKT: Who am I? > >Hey Mira, > Thanks for the free plug! And you are right on all counts: single, liberated, >without burdens, open to new challenges :-). I live in New Haven CT. If anyone >is interested, meet me at Atticus Cafe for Sunday Brunch! >David > > >> >> "Mirror" <mirror >> >> >>> >>> David: >>> KKT, >>> That's an interesting question: Do I feel "free", "liberated" as the >>> fruit of your practice? >>> >>> The short answer is Yes. >>> >>> >>> BTW girls: David is single..... >>> Anyone interested in a liberated guy without the burdens of previous >>> bondage, always open to new challenges? :-) >>> >>> Love, Mira >>> >> > > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 7 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 11:06:20 EST > Rainbolily >Re: Certainty, Worthiness & Stuff (Moller/Tg) > >In a message dated 03/05/2000 4:44:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, >moller writes: > ><< > That is why I believe this Satsangh could be so valuable to us. If we can > bring our our actual experiences to one another, we may soon fins out where > we stand and possible learn fromone another, instead of keep on repeating > the mantra: We are already whole. > >> > >Morning All, > >We keep going through this same drill. Here's an answer, perhaps one of >many. Many people bring this question to this list and challenge those >who have already been through this many times, so... here's a short >little illustration. > >If someone explains triple integration of calculus to someone who doesn't >understand, then one person understands the level of understanding of the >other. If one person is brilliant it can be recognized in another. If one >person has perfect musical pitch, this person can hear~recognize this >in another. > >It is the same with spiritual awakening. Those who are more awake are >in a position to help those of us who are less awake. They recognize >where we are and where we are not and are able to help us, and they >do so, quietly and gently and compassionately. Ask and ye shall recieve, >but remember patience is a virtue ... this is not a command performance :>) > >L*L*L > ~ bo ~ > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 8 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:58:30 -0500 > Antoine <carrea >Re: Addiction/On the last "object" of science > >Greg Goode wrote: > > Usually, advaitic non-dual approach >uses the word "real" to mean >"unchanging, permanent, independent" and >uses the word "unreal" to mean >"changeable, impermanent, dependent upon >something other than itself for >existence." It comes out that >consciousness is real, and everything >else is unreal if seen separate from >consciousness. > >So -- sensory modalities, biology, >physics, thoughts, information, external >objects, all that stuff. We do science >with it. But how can any of it be any >more or less real than any of the rest? > >--Greg >______ > >The following is from the Quantum mind >list. Contributions distributed to this >list are automatically archived at : >http://listserv.arizona.edu/lsv/www/quantum-mind.html >Though it could be of some interest for >some, a point a view, among so many. > >Love this one : "Things/objects are >abstractions/snap shots taken from the >movement by the movement itself." JP >Verhey. > >Antoine >_______ > >>From Q-mind list: >[q-mind] On the move: Is the >mind physical? (reply to Dimi Chakalov) >- JP Verhey > Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:19:29 -0700 > >>From JP Verhey > >[Dimi Chakalov] > >Is the mind physical? I would like to >address this question to all physicists >reading Q-Mind Digest. > >Let me start with Penrose's Objective >Reduction [Ref. 1]. If the mind is >physical, then, as stressed by E. H. >Walker [Ref. 2], "the E/hT >gravitational condition and the >Schrodinger equation have to be put >together. No step in this direction is >taken by Penrose." > >Alternatively, if the mind is >non-physical, then Penrose-Hameroff Orch >OR proposal should be regarded as >dualistic hypothesis. > >[JP Verhey] > >About the mind being physical or >non-physical. Could this be like asking: >how physical is the *movement* of the >moon? > >A man, his body-brain moves while he >walks over the pavement on a planet that >spins and moves around the sun that >moves relative to other stars etc. The >environment-body-brain consists of a >whole set of moving bits parts and >pieces (things identified by us as such) >that are interactively and relatively on >the move. So there is movement. Also the >mind is movement. But is there any-THING >that moves? Things/objects are >abstractions/snap shots taken from the >movement by the movement itself. We call >these abstractions "the physical". But >also abstractions (see q-mind :-) are >always on the move. Maybe the question >can be rephrased: is the mind dead or >alive? > >best, >Jan P. > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 9 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 08:58:09 -0500 > Antoine <carrea >Re: David/Who am I? > >David Hodges wrote: > >> Hi Victor, >> You asked for actual experiences.... >> First let me ask this: Did you ever hear a nearby loud, startling >> noise? If so, did you notice that the noise was registering in >> awareness >> BEFORE you actually "noticed" it on a conscious, reactive level? >> Or if not that, did you ever notice that, say, music was playing >> in the >> background of a store you were shopping in and that, on some level >> you >> were aware of it even though you weren't paying attention to it? >> Okay, so my first discovery is that there is a root level of >> awareness >> going on ALL THE TIME. And I discovered that this root level of >> awareness >> was neutral, it just happened, it wasn't in any way involved in the >> "I" >> thought. So I developed the working hypothesis that this Awareness is >> the >> true level of Being, which consciousness and thinking observe, ride >> on, and >> attempt to direct and control. >> So my practice was this: >> I would bring my attention back again and again to this root level >> of >> awareness. I would do this while meditating. I would do this while >> driving. >> While walking (this was a particularly good time) While falling >> asleep. >> While making love. >> My inquiry was something like "Is this I AM?" I would realize that >> whatever I was thinking about or feeling was not on the level of this >> root >> awareness and so I would refocus, even take a deep breath into it. >> I did this for most of a year. I got more and more used to >> aligning my >> focussed attention with this root level of awareness.Then one day >> something >> popped. Suddenly there was not need to do the alignment because there >> wasn't a separation between "my" attention and this basic awareness. >> This >> "pop" was not a result of an intellectual breakthrough or anything. It >> just >> happened one day. >> This is the way I relate it to Ramana's self-inquiry. What I was >> doing, >> as I went through that whole process, was aligning my sense of "I AM" >> away >> from the separate self and more towards the field-sense of impersonal >> Awareness. It's easy to do. Just notice that you are noticing. And >> keep >> coming back to that noticing. Keep coming back to the awareness that >> you >> are always Aware. >> I think the reason people don't do it via this path is that it >> seems too >> simple. But when you actually try it the dynamics it sets up are quite >> >> powerful. >> >> Best wishes, >> David > >Hello David, > >I just love to read you... I have been writing this during my dinner >break, at work... Hope this bad poetry won't make you laugh. No, it is >not true, simply hope the innocence in it will bring a smile, as >always... > >Changing skin as a river, >Only the presence of the sea is left. >Awareness hanging on lifebuoy - >The beauty of a sailing boat as the sun sets on the sea. > >Antoine > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 10 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:13:41 -0500 > Antoine <carrea >Re: Addiction/habit > >Roger Isaacs wrote: > >> R: >> I'm interested in experiential >> reality: does one percieve that one's >> essence >> is limited to the body or coincident >> with the body? Who cares about >> scientific opinion: what is our >> perception? > >Just fascinating Roger, the questions >that you raise... A nice question, I >would ask myself in experiencing a >sunset, is how do I experience the sun, >do i see it as moving in the sky?, or as >not moving and and feeling the planet >rotating?... Or any other way, or not at >all... The scientific opinion, as the >religious one, and so many other >opinions, have been forming the way we >experience things. We are most often not >aware that seeing things as simple as >the sun moving is a work of habit, or >the sensation of "up" or "down". >Standing on the head for a while may >change the unique perspective one may >have of its world, as much as changing >language, or changing hair colour >Until there is no rooted habit left to >care or see opinion in others >perspective. > >A perspective, > >Antoine > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 11 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:03:42 +0200 > J M de la Rouviere <moller >Re: Who am I? > >Dear Victor, > >I chipped into a conversation you had with David regarding his experience, >and I feel that somehow your initial question has not really been addressed >in the subsequent discussions. > >You asked: > ><. My impression >is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is >to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it >is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those >things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. > >~~ The question is not a question of removing the mind as thought. If you >were to do that, you would not be able to ask the question:Who am I?" The >way see this enquiry is that the question is asked by thought, but implied >in Maharshi's technique is the fact the question cannot be answered by >thought. The'answer ' is thus experiental. To ask the question Who am I, >is for Maharshi a simple matter of really trying to find this 'thing' called >'I', and then to finally come to the end of the search after reaching out in >all directions, just to discover that this 'I' cannot be found. In this >ending of the search, thought becomes naturally quiet and (may I add >speculatively) it is possible after that to again allow thought to operate >when needed. But then my impression is that thought will operate in the >context of the whole, and not from the centre it has created for itself >prior to the realisation of non-duality. > >If this line of argument suits your present enquiry, we could proceed if you >like. > >Love Moller > > > > > > > > > > >Victor Torrico <vtorrico > < > >02 March 2000 01:54 > Who am I? > > >>Victor Torrico <vtorrico >> >> >>Hello, >> >>My understanding of the question "Who am I?" is that it is a >>skillful means taught by Sri Ramana Maharshi which is to be >>used to unveil one's true non-dual condition. My impression >>is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is >>to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it >>is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those >>things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. >> >>Now I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy. What are the steps to >>be used as to how this question is actually applied? I >>would actually like to give this method a thourough trial to >>see what happens. I understand that one must do their own >>work to arrive at an unveiling of the non-dual. One cannot >>simply have another pour non-duality into their ear through a >>funnel, metaphorically speaking of course. Now I would >>really appreciate not simply hearing that "there is nothing >>to be done" since I have tried that and have not been able >>to unveil non-duality. >> >>Would those who ACTUALLY have used this method please >>describe what they actually did and how it worked for them. >>This would indeed be a great kindness and would really >>benefit others. All pointers to applying this method are >>sincerely appreciated. >> >>Victor >> >>------ >>GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates >>as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. >>Apply NOW! >>http://click./1/975/3/_/520931/_/951998055/ >>------ >> >>// >> >>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, >perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside >back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than >the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. >Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is >where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal >Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously >arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. >> >>To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at >> www., and select the User Center link from >the menu bar >> on the left. This menu will also let you change your >subscription >> between digest and normal mode. >> >> >> >> > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 12 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 11:01:02 -0800 (PST) > Tony O'Clery <aoclery >Realisations, and the some. > >Namaste All, Larry,Bruce, Gloria, Dharma, > >First of all I am a pretty fearless type of person, >much to my disadvantage in the past. Secondly if >someone didn't throw an occasional spanner on these >lists, we would all be buried in mountain of verbal, >self congratulatory, intellectual shit and fantasies. > >I see no evidence at all of 'realised people on any of >these lists', if they are there then they aren't >writing, which is what I would expect. > >I see no evidence of anything higher than the >manomayakosa/mind. I just see the usual intellectual >crap directed at discussing spirituality, instead of >charity or politics that's all. I saw it when I was a >manual laborer and I saw it when I was poor, I see it >again now. > >I am not realised, but going by the standard on here, >I must be in sahaja all the time. I have seen this >mental activity before when intellectual people are >slumming or helping the poor etc. It is also >dangerous for neophytes to believe certain people are >'realised', as evidenced from some of the post on >here. > >" Most people who claim to have experienced the Self >have not even taken their minds near to the entrance >of the Heart-Cave. And even if the mind does go into >the Heart, there is still an 'I', which is >experiencing the Bliss of the Self. The true >experience of the Self only happens when the mind is >completely absent, either temporarily, as in samadhi, >or permanently, as in Self Realisation. Both of these >experiences are extremely rare. > >It is very difficult to make the mind go into the >Heart. Mostly it is too afraid of its own death to >even approach the entrance. The mental experiences of >peace, bliss and stillness which devotees claim to >experience usually take place outside the Heart. They >are all in the mind. > > People who think that these experiences are the >Reality of the Self are only deluding themselves. >"Mathru Sri Sarada…………A Realised Jivanmukti!!!and >devotee in the line of Ramana Maharshi. > >So lets get real!!!! I would like to use these lists >as a help instead of a yardstick for the wrong >track/bogmire. I don't write this for any other >reason than that I wrote it. I do not care what other >people's opinions of me are at all, or whether you >think I am arrogant. > > > >>Tony, I see you are interested in mantra. What is >mantra? What is its >special power? How does it work? Is it primarily an >entrance to >samadhi? >What is its relationship to mudra? >Larry< >Larry I am not an expert but I will try. >Mantra or mind tools, as opposed to material tools or >yantras, are sounds that attract their corresponding >vibration, spiritually. For example I find if I use >the word Maya, as Ma and Ya. Ya does nothing for me, >whereas I get a feeling of the Kundalini rising from >repeating Ma, Ma, Ma. > > Sanskrit is a 'perfected', language and was >contrived for use spiritually. The words are sounds >that pre-exist the words. As for mudras this has to >do with directing energy flows in the body and subtle >bodies. All these things are for an aid to >spirituality. They don't work for logs, one must be >making an attempt. > >I use two mantras constantly, Om Namah Sivaya, for >japa. And the Gayatri for other things. > >Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. > > > >===== >http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm > >ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real, >THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, >MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality. >OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. > > >Talk to your friends online with Messenger. >http://im. > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 13 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:15:38 -0300 > "geovani" <inandor >Re: Addiction/habit > > >Roger Isaacs wrote: > >> R: >> I'm interested in experiential >> reality: does one percieve that one's >> essence >> is limited to the body or coincident >> with the body? Who cares about >> scientific opinion: what is our >> perception? > >Antoine>Just fascinating Roger, the questions >that you raise... A nice question, I >would ask myself in experiencing a >sunset, is how do I experience the sun, >do i see it as moving in the sky?, or as >not moving and and feeling the planet >rotating?... Or any other way, or not at >all... The scientific opinion, as the >religious one, and so many other >opinions, have been forming the way we >experience things. We are most often not >aware that seeing things as simple as >the sun moving is a work of habit, or >the sensation of "up" or "down". >Standing on the head for a while may >change the unique perspective one may >have of its world, as much as changing >language, or changing hair colour >Until there is no rooted habit left to >care or see opinion in others >perspective. > >A perspective, > >Antoine > >geovani> Perspectives: To perceive the human world >as a subject/object experience, the human organism >had to exist. Where else could the human world be perceived >if not in the human organism? When the centered inner >separate observed is seen through, then one may >say that one is the human dimension, the human >mind, the human field as a whole. In the other hand, when >the centered observer is active, that inner outsider makes us >feel as one among billions. But....the way this individuality >was created, came forth - is a lovely mistery. >- > >------ >DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as >0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >Apply NOW! >http://click./1/2120/3/_/520931/_/952276171/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all >experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising >are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. >Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis >know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of >Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 14 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:19:14 -0500 > Victor Torrico <vtorrico >Re: Who am I? > > >J M de la Rouviere <moller > >Dear Victor, > >I chipped into a conversation you had with David regarding his experience, >and I feel that somehow your initial question has not really been addressed >in the subsequent discussions. > >You asked: > ><. My impression >is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is >to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it >is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those >things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. > >Moller> >~~ The question is not a question of removing the mind as thought. If you >were to do that, you would not be able to ask the question:Who am I?" The >way see this enquiry is that the question is asked by thought, but implied >in Maharshi's technique is the fact the question cannot be answered by >thought. The'answer ' is thus experiental. To ask the question Who am I, >is for Maharshi a simple matter of really trying to find this 'thing' called >'I', and then to finally come to the end of the search after reaching out in >all directions, just to discover that this 'I' cannot be found. In this >ending of the search, thought becomes naturally quiet and (may I add >speculatively) it is possible after that to again allow thought to operate >when needed. But then my impression is that thought will operate in the >context of the whole, and not from the centre it has created for itself >prior to the realisation of non-duality. > >If this line of argument suits your present enquiry, we could proceed if you >like. <Moller > >Victor> >Hi Moller, > >Sounds great to me. It seems that after the 'I' is not >found and the mind naturally quiets then perhaps the >discovery is made that all that remains is simply pure >awareness. What I just experienced was that thoughts simply >come and go within that awareness without disturbing that >awareness. The awareness is primary and the thoughts are >secondary. The awareness itself is never disturbed by any >type of thought. Speculatively the awareness is simply all >that is and everything simply occurs within the awareness >and is not separate/non-dual from the awareness. > >When thoughts become primary or strongly emotional, such as >angry thoughts, then the awareness becomes veiled by these >thoughts even though the awareness is still there and not >disturbed. We are now back into the thought sense of 'I' >which of course does not exist. > >Just this morning I discovered a great description of what >seems to be going on at the following web site: > >http://www.livingessence.com/HowAboutNow/cooc.htm > >It's called "Coocoo Banana" and it's from Arjuna Nick >Ardagh's book "How About Now". It's super funny but highly >relevant. <Victor > >To everyone on the list, > >We will be leaving in a day or two for a two week holiday to >visit our son and his family in Austin, Texas. I will try >to answer all email when I return. > >Victor > > > >>Victor Torrico <vtorrico >> >> >>Hello, >> >>My understanding of the question "Who am I?" is that it is a >>skillful means taught by Sri Ramana Maharshi which is to be >>used to unveil one's true non-dual condition. My impression >>is that the mind which consists of the thought processes is >>to be removed or done away with. My impression is that it >>is also possible to use the mind to continue doing those >>things required by ordinary everyday life. I'm confused. >> >>Now I'm a nuts and bolts kinda guy. What are the steps to >>be used as to how this question is actually applied? I >>would actually like to give this method a thourough trial to >>see what happens. I understand that one must do their own >>work to arrive at an unveiling of the non-dual. One cannot >>simply have another pour non-duality into their ear through a >>funnel, metaphorically speaking of course. Now I would >>really appreciate not simply hearing that "there is nothing >>to be done" since I have tried that and have not been able >>to unveil non-duality. >> >>Would those who ACTUALLY have used this method please >>describe what they actually did and how it worked for them. >>This would indeed be a great kindness and would really >>benefit others. All pointers to applying this method are >>sincerely appreciated. >> >>Victor > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 15 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 14:04:18 -0600 > Eric Laing <elaing >freeheart story four: sunday > >There is no three. > >4 days ago, >'III' past, >two worlds, >one line. > >Fear. >Is a word. >Love >Is an Action. > >Choice is no different >to me. >Than to You. > >I takes everything >we are, each >Melody in every >Skye, only Love, >in My Heart. > >Each day, >Each occurrence, >Any nuance, >same, connected. > >Freedom: >Is not where we >look. freeheart >is Blind. > >I am as human >as the innocent >babe. I suggest >we all are. > >How can I help? >Is not That >which is in front of us? > >Polite Words, >still not my Heart. >The Heart wants more, >and so shall receive. > >Locked in each of >us, Fear. >Each of us to >Unlock. >Kali calls Time. > >Even Now, >I see Her Work. >Can you see Yours? > > >**** > > >Part IV: > > >Theirs is a Grace. >She awaits us. > >Patient, like the >Mother, > >Humble, as the >swift mourning Dove. > >Each in turn, >One by One. > >It is afternoon, >I have read the morning's >posts, Melody, skye, dave. >A letter from poet Gen. > >I sit in underwear and >my unpaid for NDS gray >tee-shirt, >Caught Between: >half typing >these word's, >half living >them. > >My most Glorious Wife, >now in the bedroom, and >my Youngest Son, John Lucas, >the two of them cooing, >in Tiger Tones like wild >monkeys. > >The light in my Heart, >at this moment, is Greatest, >connected, in Family, with >you all. > >I am simply attempting >to speak about my life. >No witty metaphors, >No stain upon the >Word. > >I am a carpenter, >twice married, >many children >around that I >Love. > >I do dream of >Being God. > >My Heart explodes >at That. > >And if It was for >me, as I have said here... > >I would not leave >my family. > >I would not leave >my Heart. > >The 'call' Roars, >Such Thunderous Falls >Niagara, walking >underneath. > >One foot on a wet >wooden gangplank, >a thin railing >resisting sure Death. > >Do not understand Him, >Run when you see His face! >> If you see him walking, there's >> only one thing to do - >> Immediately walk on -- whenever >> he's spotted, the road is clear. >What do these words mean, >to us? > >Tiger Roars! > >Did you hear It? > >Who even cares? > >In all this verbiage, >present, i only wish >to share my real story. >Who could do any more, >than to be Present, >amongst such Ones? > >I would bore my wise friends, >by going on about >how difficult it is >to write presently. > >Yet fully taken by this Love, >how could I Not? > > > > >Asking permission in >this particular Venue, >is redundant. >We are Mostly All Here. >Lablelessly Here.:-) > >The Teacher is always >present. > >The Fountain constantly >re-orders itself. > >The Youth hold the Promise, >of their Elders. > >We are. > > > >*Enough for now, love, >freeheart/ eric/ ...tom smith, >makes no difference! > > >beautiful sunday, >here in the midwest :-) > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 16 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:32:54 EST > leteegee >Re: Realisations, and the some. > >In a message dated 03/05/2000 2:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, >aoclery writes: > >> First of all I am a pretty fearless type of person, >> much to my disadvantage in the past. Secondly if >> someone didn't throw an occasional spanner on these >> lists, we would all be buried in mountain of verbal, >> self congratulatory, intellectual shit and fantasies. > >> I see no evidence at all of 'realised people on any of >> these lists', if they are there then they aren't >> writing, which is what I would expect. > >This only goes to prove that you get what you expect. >Certainly your expectations are merely beliefs >based on your perceptions that have been stabilized >to your particular expectation belief. > >> I see no evidence of anything higher than the >> manomayakosa/mind. > >No wonder! Get your butt outta manomayakosa/mind >and maybe a whole new world will appear. >(Not that I know what manomayakosa/mind means, >but it sounds like something you are not wanting in us, or yourself.) > >>I just see the usual intellectual >> crap directed at discussing spirituality, instead of >> charity or politics that's all. I saw it when I was a >> manual laborer and I saw it when I was poor, I see it >> again now. > >Only goes to show how much your perceptions have opened up >since you were a poor manual laborer. > >> I am not realised, but going by the standard on here, >> I must be in sahaja all the time. I have seen this >> mental activity before when intellectual people are >> slumming or helping the poor etc. It is also >> dangerous for neophytes to believe certain people are >> 'realised', as evidenced from some of the post on >> here. > >Would it also be equally dangerous for neophytes to believe >certain people are unrealized, as evidenced from some >of the posts here? > >> " Most people who claim to have experienced the Self >> have not even taken their minds near to the entrance >> of the Heart-Cave. And even if the mind does go into >> the Heart, there is still an 'I', which is >> experiencing the Bliss of the Self. The true >> experience of the Self only happens when the mind is >> completely absent, either temporarily, as in samadhi, >> or permanently, as in Self Realisation. Both of these >> experiences are extremely rare. >> It is very difficult to make the mind go into the >> Heart. Mostly it is too afraid of its own death to >> even approach the entrance. The mental experiences of >> peace, bliss and stillness which devotees claim to >> experience usually take place outside the Heart. They >> are all in the mind. > >Maybe this is where we get confused. The mind is the heart. >> >> People who think that these experiences are the >> Reality of the Self are only deluding themselves. >> "Mathru Sri Sarada…………A Realised Jivanmukti!!!and >> devotee in the line of Ramana Maharshi. >> >> So lets get real!!!! > >Yes! Let's! > >>I would like to use these lists >> as a help instead of a yardstick for the wrong >> track/bogmire. > >If that would be your desirous purpose for the list, >then make that your purpose for the list. >You don't need us for that. :-) >We all have our own purposes. > >>I don't write this for any other >> reason than that I wrote it. I do not care what other >> people's opinions of me are at all, or whether you >> think I am arrogant. > >I've found when I'm in that "I don't care'' attitude, >it's when I've placed a wall around me to protect me >from some fearful thought I have grasped on to and >don't want to look at. > >Maybe or maybe not that this is the case with you. >You may just be arrogant. :-) > >I always enjoy your inchanting posts Tony. I'm glad you are here. > >Much Love, >xxxtg > > > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 17 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:41:22 -0500 > Greg Goode <goode >Re: Realisations, and the some. > >At 03:32 PM 3/5/00 EST, leteegee wrote: > >>No wonder! Get your butt outta manomayakosa/mind >>and maybe a whole new world will appear. >>(Not that I know what manomayakosa/mind means, >>but it sounds like something you are not wanting in us, or yourself.) > >Just wanted to say, xxxtg, that this post brought many smiles to my face! > >Love, > >--Greg > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 18 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:16:21 -0500 > Antoine <carrea >Re: Addiction/habit/mystery > > > >[This message is not in displayable format] > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 19 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:11:02 EST > Rainbolily >Re: David/Who am I? > >In a message dated 03/05/2000 12:11:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, >carrea writes: > ><< > Hello David, > > I just love to read you... I have been writing this during my dinner > break, at work... Hope this bad poetry won't make you laugh. No, it is > not true, simply hope the innocence in it will bring a smile, as > always... > > Changing skin as a river, > Only the presence of the sea is left. > Awareness hanging on lifebuoy - > The beauty of a sailing boat as the sun sets on the sea. > > Antoine > >> >I agree with Antoine, David, is a joy to see you post more. > >Beautiful poem Antoine, and very profound thought in your >next email: (going to get *g*) > >Until there is no rooted habit left to >care or see opinion in others >perspective. > >A perspective, > >Antoine > >Now interestingly enough, there is a habit >i noticed this morning, being it is Sunday and >i have time to notice the feelings of energy... when >i open your emails, my kundalini fires, all the way >from root to crown ... which i hadn't noticed before.. > >perhaps i'm rooted in habit ... i should unroot >and float to sea >the mermaid in me >would love to see the sun trail over the sky >and dance in mine eye > >) Anna Maria > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 20 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:00:18 EST > "Silver Mouse" <silvermouse1 >Re: fear monster > >This list evokes an interesting feeling in me--one of both open-heartedness >and closed-mindedness. Being loving and opinionated, perhaps this is just my >own projection.... > > >Of the several kinds of fear I can recognize in myself, the one that is a >monster rises up out of my own self-centeredness. > >love and light, >Edward >____ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 21 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:02:49 EST > Rainbolily >Re: Realisations, and the some. > >In a message dated 03/05/2000 3:33:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >leteegee writes: > ><< > I always enjoy your inchanting posts Tony. I'm glad you are here. > > Much Love, > xxxtg > > >> >I'm glad you're here TeeGee :-) perhaps we can only see in >others what we have in ourselves, it is the mirror capacity... > >i loved your mystical experience description... >i find it difficult to stay motivated when my kundalini fires, >do you have this problem? I get so blissed, it's like 'who cares?' > >So, today's cares were left until tomorrow, but perhaps the >energy creates more harmonious movement? > >Oh, well, it's a great excuse to spend the day blissed *g* > >Love, >me > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 22 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:02:25 -0800 > "Melody" <melody >Invitation to join "HeartWalk" > >"HeartWalk" is a space made ready for the Heart.... >a space supported in love....where one can begin >to look inward at one's own abyss....into one's >own fears....into one's deepest nature. A place >where once can begin dropping the armor of >self preservation....the armor that inhibits the freedom >to live a life of love. > >As I have heard it described, this list is not a place >of psychotherapy, bit it IS a place of deep listening. >It is not a place for being attacked, but it is a place >where ego and old limiting belief systems may be >challenged. It is not a place for blaming 'others', >but IS a place for taking responsibility. > >And so this clear pool of ours is moderated. It is >moderated in the sense that there will be lifeguards >present - not to 'save' someone from drowning, but >to remove from the water those swimmers whose >movements are so intrusive as to impede the movements >of others. > >Whether you come with a heart that knows freedom, or >come with a heart that yearns to know love, we invite you >to share this space with us. > >To , go to: >HeartWalk > >or send a blank email to: >HeartWalk- > > > >"The heart pulsating in love becomes a flute on the lips of God, and a song is born." ~ Osho > > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 23 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:34:18 -0500 > "Gloria Lee" <glee >Re: Realisations, and the some. > > > >>Rainbolily >> >>In a message dated 03/05/2000 3:33:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>leteegee writes: >> >><< >> I always enjoy your inchanting posts Tony. I'm glad you are here. >> >> Much Love, >> xxxtg >> >> >> >>I'm glad you're here TeeGee :-) perhaps we can only see in >>others what we have in ourselves, it is the mirror capacity... >> >>i loved your mystical experience description... >>i find it difficult to stay motivated when my kundalini fires, >>do you have this problem? I get so blissed, it's like 'who cares?' >> >>So, today's cares were left until tomorrow, but perhaps the >>energy creates more harmonious movement? >> >>Oh, well, it's a great excuse to spend the day blissed *g* >> >>Love, >>me >> >Hi there, Anna-Maria Spaghetti-toes, > >Yes, yes, yes... you are so right. Some days a body just can't even think >straight for grinning, but Ahh, such love!! Simply filled with gratitude to know >such people as are here. What to say, how to say it, to explain this or >that..what does it all matter or mean compared to this love? And I meant to but >forgot to tell teegee!! please do see the movie American Beauty, for that one >line I remember towards the end where someone says, "It's hard to stay mad, when >there is so much beauty in the world." > >And then teegee does this very thing for me with her answer to Tony. I admit I >was first all sad and even a bit mad, feeling, oh Tony, please listen >better..you did not hear us..but then teegee gets me laughing about us all, >stepping on each other's toes, and tripping over our own feet of clay .... and >you know suddenly I see a new Tony, my dear fearless, sweet, Tony..he wants to >be my protector..my knight in shining armor is here!! And it is all love, even >our mistakes and misunderstandings and failures to communicate. So when I see >this way, and I simply know all the love that is sent here each and every day >with every post that is written, and compared to the beauty of this what does >the rest matter? > >Yes, so glad we are all here. > >Love, Glo > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 24 > Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:35:10 -0500 > Antoine <carrea >Re: Anna Maria/Who am I? > > > >[This message is not in displayable format] > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > >Message: 25 > Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:51:19 -0500 > "Gloria Lee" <glee >Signs of Attention > > >Teahouse practice means that you don't explicitly talk about Zen. It refers to >leading your life as if you were an old woman who has a teahouse by the side of >the road. Nobody knows why they like to go there, they just feel good drinking >her tea. She's not known as Buddhist teacher, she doesn't say, "This is the Zen >teahouse." All she does is simply serve tea - but still, her decades of >attentiveness are part of the way she does it. No one knows about her faithful >attention to the practice, it's just there, in the serving of the tea and the >way she cleans the counters and washes the cups. > > ~~by Jane Hirshfield >>From "Fooling with Words:A Celebration of Poets and Their Craft" by Bill Moyers > > > > >_________________________ ____ >_________________________ ____ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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