Guest guest Posted March 8, 2000 Report Share Posted March 8, 2000 Namaste All, In response. Well I really don't have any need to categorise 'realisation', it may mean different things to different people. The usual morass of intellectual debate. I always prefer committees of one as well. Sivarathri is in between the moons were the gravity is weakest, therefore one has more control over the vibrations of one's mind. People get nutty at the full moon, check any cop or hospital worker. Someone thinks because I use Sanskrit phrases that I think only Vedantists can be realised. This is the stupidity of too much 'intelligence'. This is my education, I am not as sophisticated as some vocabs on here, so like you I use what I was taught or read or studied. How about this for a large step? " Somewhere there is a dream, dreaming us" Kalahari San Bushman saying,--Leakey, these people are illiterate hunter gatherers, or were. They already know more than many educated people on these lists. There is only 'one', God or 'whatever', therefore there can be only one 'realisation', the rest are illusions or steps. Anything with residual memory of bliss etc is mind, for who remembers, or experiences? Having any mind at all is not realisation. There is no categorising there is only a category of one. If you have any mind you aren't realised it is as simple as that.THE SELF SEES NOTHING. With regard to Siva lingams, yes I met a person who had all king of supernatural events, including lingams manifesting in his yard. He had ash and honey dripping of pictures,had to be collected in a bowl, ash forming on fruit in front of one, coconuts cracking themselves, glasses of water turning into amritham etc. I have seen these happening in numerous places in different countries, usually around Sai Devotees, although he says it is not him but their own devotion/minds, that causes it. Perhaps spirits also? Lingams represent the cosmos, or Siva's will concretised, it is believed to dwell in all in the subtle form. There are no corners it is a universal shape. As in golden egg, Hiranyagharba etc. It represents the formless with form. It represents that which all particulars emerge and finally merge. The universe/es are shaped like eggs anyway, which is interesting. With regard to Sai Baba, I don't really want to discuss him again. See this from the club! Parvarti (37/M/New Zealand) 3/1/00 2:08 am Deccan Chronicle 5.11.99: "Hyderabad Nov 4: Justice G Raghu Ram of the Andhra Pradesh High Court on Thursday admitted a writ petition seeking initiation of criminal prosecution against the doctors of the Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Medical Sciences, Puttaparthi in Anantapur district alleging malpractices regarding the transplantation of kidney. The writ petition has been filed by Balaji Triambak Rao Karavande, who has alleged that the doctors of the institute removed a kidney from his body and did not transplant the same to his father... After he offered to donate one of his kidneys to save his father's life, the doctors at the institute operated on him on April 25 1994 and told him that the same would be transplanted to his father. BT Karavande said that his father died in December 1995 and to his shock the doctors claimed that his father's body did not show signs of a new transplanted kidney. He informed the court that after this revelation, he lodged a complaint with the Latur [Maharashtra] police, who exumed the body, conducted a post-mortem, and confirmed that no kidney transplant has taken place. He alleged that the police at Puttaparthi did not register the complaint and that he was thrown out of the hospital when he confronted the doctors with the relevant documents. he sought compensation of Rs 20 lakh and direction to the police to register a case and punish the guilty who played fraud upon him." This story is also reported in The Hindu, Hyderabad, 5.11.99. This court action confirms the corruption of the operation at the Super Specialty Hospital - I have copies of some of the evidence filed by the petitioner. Apart from the obvious fraud and theft, if the allegations are proven the persons and doctors responsible at the Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Medical Sciences have also, at least, committed manslaughter and possibly murder (if a deliberate intent can be established). Where is the avatar's grace in all of this? The poor young man has lost both a kidney and a father - If you want more on this go to a page I have listed and check out the urls at the end, esp Sokaren and Beyerstein. He is a UBC prof, I believe! http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/escapesai1.htm Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. ===== http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real, THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality. OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. Talk to your friends online with Messenger. http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2000 Report Share Posted March 8, 2000 Tony, and anyone, for that matter, If you could only see Her eyes when She says: When She says, She Loves You! We read your words with astonishment and awe. For you are what we are. She speaks all around you, like a dumb and mute animal. She speaks beside a man called eric to you, tony. Why do some Hear, and some flap mouths? Eric used to hear only himself. You also can hear only yourself. Who is this, knocking at the Door, awaiting only you or only me? Do words confuse? You and Me are words. There is no pointing, amulets, ash, tears, are not real. Stop, listen to No Thing. maybe then you will hear, this wind. I am blowing. Why do you make me blow? If I was a Mind, you would understand. How have you Minded Your Heart? There are No Words, Tony. Only You only Me :-) *side note: it IS so windy, here in KC. I have been putting away old salvaged windows i saved from landfill dissolution, and this Wind has in the last hour, ....shattered to smithereens..., at least 5 large units so far. Ha! 2 years of storage, shards under children's' feet Now. practical note: I am only Laughter, No Thought. real time: "A joke, a cosmic message, I will make a party out of the clean-up" immediate result: Heart continues, unimpeded. No- Thing. No cut feet either. Tony, this is what i am. At least i am coming to communion with it. What are you dear friend? My heart perceives struggle in the Heart. Is this to Personal to ask? Is it wrong to ask? Are you not asking? opening, eric Tony O'Clery wrote: > > Tony O'Clery <aoclery > > Namaste All, In response. > > Well I really don't have any need to categorise > 'realisation', it may mean different things to > different people. The usual morass of intellectual > debate. I always prefer committees of one as well. > > Sivarathri is in between the moons were the gravity is > weakest, therefore one has more control over the > vibrations of one's mind. People get nutty at the full > moon, check any cop or hospital worker. > > Someone thinks because I use Sanskrit phrases that I > think only Vedantists can be realised. This is the > stupidity of too much 'intelligence'. > This is my education, I am not as sophisticated as > some vocabs on here, so like you I use what I was > taught or read or studied. > > How about this for a large step? > > " Somewhere there is a dream, dreaming us" > Kalahari San Bushman saying,--Leakey, these people are > illiterate hunter gatherers, or were. > They already know more than many educated people on > these lists. > > There is only 'one', God or 'whatever', therefore > there can be only one 'realisation', the rest are > illusions or steps. Anything with residual memory of > bliss etc is mind, for who remembers, or experiences? > > Having any mind at all is not realisation. There is no > categorising there is only a category of one. If you > have any mind you aren't realised it is as simple as > that.THE SELF SEES NOTHING. > > With regard to Siva lingams, yes I met a person who > had all king of supernatural events, including lingams > manifesting in his yard. He had ash and honey dripping > of pictures,had to be collected in a bowl, ash forming > on fruit in front of one, coconuts cracking > themselves, glasses of water turning into amritham > etc. I have seen these happening in numerous places in > different countries, usually around Sai Devotees, > although he says it is not him but their own > devotion/minds, that causes it. Perhaps spirits also? > > Lingams represent the cosmos, or Siva's will > concretised, it is believed to dwell in all in the > subtle form. There are no corners it is a universal > shape. As in golden egg, Hiranyagharba etc. It > represents the formless with form. > It represents that which all particulars emerge and > finally merge. > > The universe/es are shaped like eggs anyway, which is > interesting. > > With regard to Sai Baba, I don't really want to > discuss him again. See this from the club! > Parvarti > (37/M/New Zealand) > > 3/1/00 2:08 am > > Deccan Chronicle 5.11.99: "Hyderabad Nov 4: Justice > G Raghu Ram of the Andhra Pradesh High > Court on Thursday admitted a writ petition seeking > initiation of criminal prosecution against the doctors > of the Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Medical > Sciences, Puttaparthi in Anantapur district alleging > malpractices regarding the transplantation of > kidney. > The writ petition has been filed by Balaji Triambak > Rao Karavande, who has alleged that the doctors of > the institute removed a kidney from his body and > did not transplant the same to his father... > After he offered to donate one of his kidneys to > save his father's life, the doctors at the institute > operated on him on April 25 1994 and told him that > the same would be transplanted to his father. > BT Karavande said that his father died in December > 1995 and to his shock the doctors claimed that his > father's body did not show signs of a new > transplanted kidney. He informed the court that after > this > revelation, he lodged a complaint with the Latur > [Maharashtra] police, who exumed the body, > conducted a post-mortem, and confirmed that no > kidney transplant has taken place. > He alleged that the police at Puttaparthi did not > register the complaint and that he was thrown out of > the > hospital when he confronted the doctors with the > relevant documents. he sought compensation of Rs 20 > lakh and direction to the police to register a case > and punish the guilty who played fraud upon him." > > This story is also reported in The Hindu, > Hyderabad, 5.11.99. > > This court action confirms the corruption of the > operation at the Super Specialty Hospital - I have > copies of some of the evidence filed by the > petitioner. > > Apart from the obvious fraud and theft, if the > allegations are proven the persons and doctors > responsible at the Sri Sathya Sai Institute of > Higher Medical Sciences have also, at least, committed > manslaughter and possibly murder (if a deliberate > intent can be established). > > Where is the avatar's grace in all of this? The > poor young man has lost both a kidney and a father - > > If you want more on this go to a page I have listed > and check out the urls at the end, esp Sokaren and > Beyerstein. He is a UBC prof, I believe! > > http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/escapesai1.htm > > Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. > > ===== > http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm > > ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real, > THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, > MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality. > OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. > > > Talk to your friends online with Messenger. > http://im. > > ------ > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click./1/2122/3/_/520931/_/952540342/ > ------ > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2000 Report Share Posted March 8, 2000 Dear Tony: I don't know why, and forgive me if I presume, but when I read your posts I feel these tremendous protective rushes towards you.......perhaps because I perceive that it is so important and precious to you to explain something that is precious to you, in your sight and your experience.....that you have something to share with us......and that you desire so to share it.......I love that sense and that sound.....and I am touched by it and by you. Love, Kristi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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