[NondualitySalon] realization versus NonDuality

[Guest guest]

On 3/9/00 at 8:24 AM Roger Isaacs wrote:

 

[...]

¤NonDuality has absolutely nothing to do with realization

!!!!!!!!

 

The perspective that it has, it that realization (defined as

"recognizing who you are and always was") could be called a

"start" for "factual" nonduality.

 

¤People on this email list (NDS) fall into 2 groups: the

realized and the

¤non-realized. One might think that NonDuality is the "way",

but this is

¤absolutely not the case.

 

When fully engaged in a certain task, who is thinking of name,

family and friends? They are temporarily forgotten. Likewise,

one's real nature is temporarily forgotten due to

identifications. That doesn't classify for a different group

Regarding ways, there are thousands of proverbial ways, all

leading to Rome. "Rome" reads "factual" nonduality and if it

were dependent on a path, it would be worthless.

 

¤For an unrealized person, NonDuality theory points to the

highest truth,

¤however, thoughts about nonDuality can be misleading,

digressive,

¤distracting, obstructive. Identification with

thought/emotion is the barrior

¤to realization. Therefore, thoughts about NonDuality are

the barrior dressed

¤up in different clothes. "Exchange unprofitable speculation

for actual God

¤Realization" [Yogananda from probably inaccurate memory]

 

Some time ago in a usenet news group there was a thread on

"watering down", that is, once a teaching having settled on

North American soil, it will change according to the law "time

is money" so preparation / practice is left out. Jokingly

expressed, it is boiled down to detached enjoyment.

 

¤Realization is a particular stage, Osho describes it as

level 4, Maharishi

¤M. Yogi as level 5, Barry Long as level 4... Steiner,

Gurdjieff, Aurobindo:

¤all have similiar descriptions.

 

Stages are always from the perspective of the mind. Regarding

the modifications the mind (and body) will undergo, it has a

certain value and probably was used in ancient cultures as

well, for instance the Sumerian hats with a certain number of

horns on it. The "recognition of Self" would count as 1

 

¤Nonduality is a more advanced stage, Osho suggests it

becomes a possibility

¤at level 5, MMY at level 6-7, BL describes levels 5-7.

(quotes available on

¤request but I don't have the books handy now)

 

Unless this is specified in terms of modifications of mind, it

has no practical value. Remember that in Jainism nonduality

becomes "factual" when the first 4 karmas have been burnt,

leaving 4 others.

 

¤NonDuality or Advaita Vedanta is the 6th System of Indian

Philosophy. If

¤you're unrealized the appropriate system is the 4th System

of Indian

¤Philosophy called Yoga. (not just Hatha yoga but all the

other types &

¤tantra too).

 

There has been an era when there was no division in various

kinds of yoga and philosophy; it was when recognition of

"Self" was much more common and easier than it is today.

 

¤If ya put the cart before the horse yer not going anywhere!

 

Before there were metaled roads, a trained long distance

runner could outperform a horse in a 24 hours race - who needs

horse and cart?

 

¤MMY says something like: the actual experiential reality of

NonDuality is

¤entirely & totally & completely incomprehensible by the

ordinary mind. So,

¤if one is unrealized, it's just a pointing. The work to be

done is to be

¤still. "Stillness is the Way" [bL]. Drop

intellectualization, drop thoughts,

¤all thoughts, especially those about NonDuality !

¤

¤Roger

 

MMY is right; "factual" nonduality could be said to end

experience once and for all. The most effective pointing is

DEATH and DYING. It is unavoidable and when fully realizing

this, how can one enjoy "business as usual?" Pleasure and pain

are but the two sides of the same coin, one isn't possible

without the other and both have to be given up once. "In order

to find Life, one has to lose life first", the Kathopanishad,

"dying while remaining alive", it all points to same: the

"sour apple" comes before the nectar. The "nectar of

immortality" will flow spontaneously whereas the "sour apple"

has to be processed in (inner) solitude.

 

Jan