Hello Medicine (long)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/10/00 5:33:31 PM, Rainbolily writes:

>Dharma, I agree there are times for medication. But they are exceptionally

>rare. I once had a psychiatrist prescribe prozac to a friend i was trying

>to help get sober. She took the prozac and drank, wrapped a car around a

>tree. I went by and invited him to come to an open AA meeting with me.

>He came. There were not less than 5 girls there he had given prozac to,

>it's given out like candy.

 

Hi Bo. Not all psychiatrists are so casual about the prescription of

medications. I would hazard to say though that while the psychiatrist may

not have been practicing good medicine, he was not to blame for your

friend drinking and crashing her car (as they say in AA meetings--including

the one I just got home from-- the disease is cunning, baffling and powerful).

>The issues are obvious. How exactly does one determine chemical BiPolar?

>Many very brilliant people are diagnosed BiPolar. As a now famous physician

>Elliot Dacher (PsychoNeuroImmunology book and leading world speaker)

>once said to me, it's easy to hand out drugs. It's much more difficult

>to teach a patient to really meditate seriously two or three times a day.

 

And it can even be difficult to balance prescribing medications with urging

a person to take other steps (such as meditation) to recover from depression.

> And, a brilliant person will feel more intensely and may need that level of

>meditation. Are they disciplined? Or lazy? Or, turning their lives

>over to doctor/teacher/mother/father/authority? If I'm not responsible

>for my life who is? It's easy to point a finger, but then I never have

>a solution. I cannot create a solution if it's someone else causing the

>problem. Or, are we going to think people are too dumb to handle

>their own lives? That's a big issue that alot of people debate. I

>personally like to honor the Teacher that lives in each and every

>person. We all get trauma. We all get problems. And, we all

>have a solution within ourselves for that piece of the whole which is

>us, our dharma.

 

Whew! You've said a lot. I too believe that people need to take

responsibility for their own lives. However, I believe that for some

people, more help is needed than just honoring their inner Teacher (and

it can be very healthy--and take tremendous courage--for a person to

realize that recovery may not be possible by going it alone and ask for help).

 

The way see it, I can be *a part* of some people's process. When I feel I am

truly doing my job, I feel part of the dance of the universe. When I turn my

life and will over to the care of my Higher Power, I am doing God's will on

the job, and sometimes this involves the prescription of medications.

 

As for people needing the pain they are feeling for growth (or to resolve

their karma), perhaps that is so. Much has been written over the ages about

"the dark night of the soul." I know that for my own spiritual journey it

was necessary for me to go through the pain of alcoholism and drug addiction

(as

well as the experience of severe suicidal depression) for my own process of

spiritual growth. I am now grateful for those experiences.

 

However, I am not willing to sentence others to *my* hell just because it

was necessary for me. I am not willing to let a person suffer from a

possibly

treatable illness just because I may believe that their pain is necessary for

their growth (and I would have a hard time dealing with the inevitable

suicides which could result).

 

There are some people who don't respond to medications (and perhaps these

are the people who need the extra pain). I have a woman in the hospital now

who has not responded to over one year of aggressive medication/psychotherapy

treatment (she has been depressed since her son suicided). I believe that

the

pain and depression she has been going through have likely been necessary for

her recovery and emotional/spiritual growth. (and during the entire time I

have treated her, I have stressed to her the importance of deepening her

spiritual life in recovering from her depression)

 

Most of the medications I prescribe either help a chemical imbalance, or

they

don't. If they don't, they don't do anything. They aren't "feel-good"

pills-- if

there isn't a chemical imbalance they don't do anything. They certainly don't

produce euphoria (I know... I've tried them ;-)

 

When I look back on my life I see that I have gotten to where I am (a private

practice psychiatrist) very much in spite of myself. Life has guided me to

where I am now and I have to believe it is for a reason. When I treat my

patients I do my best to calm my mind and come from within when making

decisions regarding treatment. Sometimes the answer that comes is to use

medications. I have to trust that I am doing what I am supposed to be doing

(and often prescribing medication is what feels intrinsically right to me).

 

This is an issue about which people tend to feel strongly. I completely

respect that. I have a harder time, however, accepting those who profess

to others what paths or treatments are "right," or "wrong," or beneficial.

I realize that this is an issue which *I* need to continue to work on,

especially since my chosen career can put me in the role of answering

these very questions. Regardless, Bo, I can feel in your posts a true caring

for and compassion towards others, and although our opinions may differ,

we are very much alike in that sentiment.

 

Namasté, my friend-

 

Mike

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 03/11/2000 2:09:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

UnbrknCh8n writes:

 

<< However, I believe that for some

people, more help is needed than just honoring their inner Teacher (and

it can be very healthy--and take tremendous courage--for a person to

realize that recovery may not be possible by going it alone and ask for

help).

>>

Yes! Absolutemente :-) Your Inner Teacher teaches mine when i am

capable of recognizing our sameness. Independence i think is a long held

and long cherished myth, which i've said here before, and interdependence

is a truth, perhaps a more new one to the Western mind... :-)

 

I do think though that nutritional imbalances are not recognized by

most physicians. Another example, simply because they seem to bring

the truth home fastest. When my sister (who does not have the world's

best diet) was pregnant the obstetrician gave her pre-natal vitamins which

normally have Ferric, Fe3+, iron.

 

I said to her if she didn't switch to a health food variety with Ferrous

iron, such as that made by Linus Pauling or Richard Passwater (both

biochemists) she would risk hemmeroids because ferric iron is difficult

for the body to digest and absorb. The body can get about 20%, the

rest is just hell on the liver, kidneys and so on, but it's cheap and docs

make money on it.

 

Her response was my husband is a leading surgeon and he thinks it's fine.

Mark, her husband, is actually pretty open to biochemical dialogue, her

ego just likes to toss this out. She got hemmeroids. Painful and requiring

surgery.

 

The next time she was pregnant she took the Ferrous iron (Fe2+), more

expensive but the body can get about 80% for the blood to carry

oxygen to her and the unborn baby. Pregnancy, digestion, delivery

were a breeze and no hemmeroids.

 

This is a bit of a detour, but it points to the fact that most physicians/

psychiatrists have only one semester of biochemistry and do not

thoroughly study/understand the TCA cycle much less the neurochemistry.

So, how often are the PET scans introduced? How often are blood

nutritional samples taken. Intuition is a great thing, so is data. I

wouldn't

send a rocket to the moon on intuition, I'd do the equations required and

they are considerable. I would ask the physician to give the same attention

to my container/body. Positron emission tomography (PET)

is not a new science, neither is a complete nutritional analysis a new

concept. And for patients who are alcoholics, my bet is that their

biochemistry is way out of kilter and a really serious supplemental

nutrition is in order. If it causes pain to them while getting sober, it

is most likely because there has been no ability to cope with emotions

because of living in inebriation for 1, 5, 10, 20 years, and so emotional

growth is seriously stunted. Instead of feeling, it was drunk away.

There are plenty of these brilliant alcoholics in my own family. Here

we are lucky there are also brilliant physicians and psychiatrists who do

not lean to helping them sweep all the rocks from their path. Sometimes

it's better to walk the path and clean one's own way.

 

Bipolar is a catch-all. Serious mania, either manic or depressive, or both

will show up as the glucose is absorbed by the right side of the brain in

truly manic depressive/bipolar people ... just as it is exclusively used

in the left side of the brain in schizophrenics. Now, perhaps portions of

these illnesses can be addressed with choline, salts, and cleansers like C

for the

blood, Vitamin E for the oils, Folic Acid, Potassium, Magnesium,

pycnogenol, selenium, CoQ10, and so on. And since a depressed or

alcoholic person would let go of taking care of their nutritional needs

this would be a place to begin addressing the foundations, yes?

 

Love*Light*Laughter

[Guest guest]

hluthar wrote:

>Hi Mike, you are a total gift to this list! You are most profoundly aware

>of the turbulent nature of events in consciousness and the pain they can

>cause. You combine your professional responsibilities and spirituality

>in a beautiful and compassionate way. Your tolerance of differences in

>opinion is a great teaching for us. How did you find us?

>

>Lots of love and hugs brother

>Harsha

 

Hi Harsha. Thank you for the exceedingly kind words. I do indeed attempt to

combine my professional responsibilities and spirituality on a daily basis.

However, in my own mind I often seem to get caught up in ego and fear. Your

post suggests to me that perhaps I am a wee bit overcritical of myself. <g>

 

I'm pretty sure that I first heard about this list through the Allspirit list

(spiritual poetry and stuff), but it may have been NDHighlights. Regardless,

this is a very cozy place, and I consider myself fortunate to be here. I

have

been actively spiritually searching for a much shorter period of time than

many of you on this list, and I enjoy basking in the decriptions of the path

ahead.

 

Namasté, and thanks again-

 

Mike

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/11/00 9:30:03 AM, Rainbolily writes:

>Now, perhaps portions of

>these illnesses can be addressed with choline, salts, and cleansers like

>C for the blood, Vitamin E for the oils, Folic Acid, Potassium, Magnesium,

>pycnogenol, selenium, CoQ10, and so on. And since a depressed or

>alcoholic person would let go of taking care of their nutritional needs

>this would be a place to begin addressing the foundations, yes?

 

Hi Bo. Yes, I do indeed agree :-) I believe in running full blood

chemistries

(looking for electrolyte, endocrinologic or nutritional problem) before a

patient is started on psychiatric medication. Occasionally, treatment of any

problems found will be enough to treat the psychiatric symptoms. Perhaps

even more of my patients could respond to non-pharmacological interventions.

 

However, oftentime I first see patients when they are hospitalized either

for suicidality or psychosis (e.g., a patient with Bipolar Disorder who says

that he is a Navy Seal on special assignment for the government--and actually

believes it-- when in actuality he is an accountant). I see my

responsibility

at such a time as doing what I can to ensure the safety of the patient (and

medications are usually the fastest way to improve suicidality or relieve

psychosis).

 

Take care-

 

Mike

[Guest guest]

Hello Mike,

 

UnbrknCh8n wrote:

> I see my

> responsibility

> at such a time as doing what I can to

> ensure the safety of the patient (and

> medications are usually the fastest way to

> improve suicidality or relieve

> psychosis).

>

> Take care-

>

> Mike

 

The medication being the fastest way and

_less expensive_ way to improve suicidality

sure does reflect a choice made buy society

in the long run. Less and less, we will we

see an human being sitting near the person

being sick for the time of its sickness. We

do not find the time, in general, to sit buy,

with, our sick. We forget them, more often

than none, in an hospital room where people

pass on the sound off the clock, to take

blood samples, fead you, give a pill or wash

you.

 

In this "society", i really do admire your

line of work, you are sitting at the front

line. And what you do giving the means the

society gives you, one doctor for how many

people 100?, 1000? 10000?. When it should be

1 for one, at the least.

 

Some ask you to be a god, we are all human,

 

Time is what we need sings someone.

 

But it is here... why waste it?

 

Antoine