Detachment and depression

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:53:33 Dharma wrote:

>I have a small suggestion. How about making a list of things you enjoy?

>Or... could you decide that it's good to do things on the spur of the

>moment...

>Did you know that chocolate or coffee or red pepper will make you feel good

>for a little while

>They say exercise also causes the release of endorphins.

 

I find these to be great and down to earth

advice against mild depression, Dharma.

Thanks for reminding me about them.

I got too wrapped up in concepts there.

 

BTW, do you always equate astral with emotional

stuff ?

>A person can be attached to being detached, too. ) If he has a very

>strong reaction to any emotion in himself or in others... or to any

>behavior he considers "attached"... then he's hung up on being detached.

 

LOL !

>I wish I could give you a statue of Shiva Nataraja... Dancing Shiva.

>Nietzsche said he could believe only in a god who dances. This whole

>world is the dance of Shiva!

 

) Another of Nietzsche's somewhat misaimed

pointers but a pointer indeed.

What a beautiful saying.

 

I find Shiva Nataraj to be an infinitely beautiful symbol as well.

I thought about it today.

To be able to dance, there has in addition to

joy and playfulness,

supreme balance.

 

Balance is not something which is static,

it is movement, being and not-being,

moving this way and not-moving, moving the other

way, then not-moving, flexing the hands and

feet in an appropriate and aware sequence.

 

Like they say about music,

music is not only sound, but the absence of

sound at the right places. )

 

Love,

 

Amanda.

 

 

 

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

[Guest guest]

Well, Holly, the depression comes and goes, but I can't say I feel

any better afterwards than before, at least not obviously so. And if I

do, it could simply be due to the methods I'm using to keep the

depression at bay. But then, I'm never quite sure whether I'm k-

active or not! (And I can't help feeling that, if i'm not sure, I'm

probably not!)

best wishes,

gill

> Here's my 2-cents worth: Gill didn't say how long the feelings of

> detachment have lasted but I have noticed periodic bouts with the same

> ever since Kundalini awakening. After the feelings move on, I notice I am

> considerably lighter and more transparent. I've wondered if the

> phenomenon isn't a part of the K-roto-rootering and that the feelings of

> detachment aren't actually a kind of protective anaesthetic. I don't find

> the feelings of detachment pleasant at all, however. The genuine

> spiritual detachment that seems to increase over time is (as somebody

> noted) a sparkling, clear joy in being alive -- there is no particular

> interest in outcome because the process itself is utterly satisfactory. I

> might say that all the previous attachments get re-routed toward Life

> Itself. Holly

[Guest guest]

At 21:03 10/03/00, you wrote:

>"mumble cat" <mumblecat

>

>

>Hi the two of you !

>

))))

>)

>

>Thanks for starting a very interesting thread

>Gil and thanks for your great input, Rob and

>TG.

 

God, I got in this morning and grinned like a fool at the number of posts.

What a great bunch of ppl there are on this list!

>

>On the whole, I very much agree with Rob,

>as per usual LOL !

 

<Surprized and grateful!> ) One of these days, I'll learn to keep it

brief and to the point, make it easier for ppl to agree/disagree! )

>

>Just wanted to add:

>

>

big snip>This way of accepting emotions when they arise

>is also called "surrender".

>The concepts of detachment and surrender

>are to me two sides of the same coin.

>Detachment is the result of surrender and

>surrender is the result of detachment.

 

Oh Right: this has cleared something up for me, thank you!

>

>Watching the flowers of emotions bud, bloom

>and wither as they appear on the field inside,

>does not to me feel to be quite the same

>as being emotionally paralyzed by depression.

>

nor for me.

 

snip>In one way:

>relief workers cannot do the job they have

>been set to do if they get overwhelmed by

>the misery around them, so they must feel

>they have somewhat detached from the

>suffering around them.

>However, it is not "nice" to be detached from

>the suffering of others, but we all in some

>respects are.

>

I have seen that with some therapists too. Tho' not many. Burnout,

compassion fatigue etc...

>I kept thinking about this tody when eating lunch

>and watching two friends trying to wrench

>sympathy for his own situation from the other,

>which was in no situation to be able to

>give the sympathy he was asked for.

 

Yes, seen that too. I know now there's a way out of that. Years ago I would

have been just like them...

>

snip>

>>Whatever processes bring depression to a person, and they could be highly

>>individual, one factor I keep finding is a sense of disempowerment. The

>>person feels they cannot/should not/must not/does not deserve to achieve a

>>heart's desire.

>

>You describe the state of depression very well !

 

Thanks! Actually, I really loved what David Hodges said!

Beautifully put.

>

>It is as with suicide: no one wants to die,

>they just find it impossible to live.

>Squeezed out of your own sense of hope by

>circumstance / biology / whatever.

>A horrible situation indeed.

>

>>This is so different to the

>>voluntary, gradual, letting go of attachment to joys and pleasures. "Let me

>>*have* them first, then I'll let'em go!"

>

>But does this voice ever stop asking for

>more and more ? I do wonder about this.

>

Yes, i believe it does, unless one's fear still drives the need. Fear of

loss, of something not lasting...

>I do understand your point, though, that to

>be able to let go, one must be in a place

>where one is felt that this is a choice,

>not that one is forced.

 

I find the Gestalt view interesting here: the need to reach out and grasp,

if frustrated too much, becomes a giving up. The child needs to believe it

can ultimately succeed in its efforts, or the life force cannot express

itself.

 

I was looking at the Osho tarot this am. Rebirth: the camel, the lion and

the child. Camel=dozing, lost in self-reflections, lion=awake, striving to

express the self, child=at peace in one's self, able to respond fluidly and

naturally.

>

>>trying

>>to get back to Eden, whatever. Cults work on this too. What would you do to

>>regain Eden?

>

>Yes, that has become another desire, a horse

>someone else can put in front of their own

>cart.

 

But sometimes the horse gets to arrive at a place it wanted to see... )

Tired, perhaps a little resentful, maybe feeling a bit used, but...!

>

>>That is why I am still a little sensitive to others' "inestimable

>>certainties", as I call them. I see the liberation from this particular

>>prison as a total permission to BE. A depressed person does not need a

>>"pull yourself together" attitude, nor are they removed from spiritual

>>discovery and awareness.

>

>Yes ! No ! I don't know !

>

>I only know emotions can be used as fuel for

>something else.

 

<lol> How beautifully put! )

>

>>At a high level, nothing "really" matters. High indifference, as John C

>>Lilly used to call it. But compassion is a magic tool, even if in the end

>>it is another illusion. What a beautiful illusion!

>

>My friend and I bought the latest record from

>Prodigy at the same time, right when it

>hit the shops.

>We shared a flat and would both turn on the

>same track and open the doors to our rooms,

>so the loud noise from the thumping beats

>could be synchronized throughout the flat.

>

>I never forget it when my friend announced

>ecstatically during one of these techno

>sessions:

>"My god, it sounds better the louder you turn

>the volume up !" ))

 

Yes!! ))

 

You still like house/techno? We have some good parties over here! )

 

 

Much love

 

Rob

>

>Best regards,

>

>Amanda.