Moksha and liberation

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Message: 21

Sun, 12 Mar 2000 04:46:13 EST

MHortling

Moksha & Desire

 

The original question from Tony:

(Whew, this questions are more difficult than

a Calculus 202 exam )

 

<'Is moksha possible with

<all these tendencies intact, no matter how non-dual one is?>

 

Michael, I really appreciated your experience

with the wheel of desire.

 

I don't know if you are familiar with the ten

"searching for the bull"

pictures from the zen tradition ?

 

The search and taming of the bull is this

search for the source of desires and the subsequent utilization of them on the

spiritual

path.

 

The pictures are an allegory of a process very much similar to the one you

describe here,

and what others have been menioning in the mails under the subject "Depression

and detachment" and now under"Desire and moksha".

 

It is fascinating to see that this is a process

that not only zen monks have described and

participated in, but also something that goes on

in today's world, that modern men and women

are not completely lost in their own desires.

>This also seems to activate other neurophysiological pathways

>within the brain and the desire/repulsion circuits become less predominant.

 

That's a very interesting observation.

 

I can't say I have noticed the same thing, but

with some rewiring (?) of the fear circuits,

the stress of doing things that were displeasurable or scary have lessened to a

great degree. But as you say, the next trip to

the dentist's will put that to the test.

>My guess is that if one goes deeply into this state and there are no desires

>or karmic patterns left to hold on to, then death of the physical body would

>happen - and this seems to be taught in the yogic traditions as well, I think

>the teachings mention something like 21 days being the maximum a yogi can

>stay in Nirvikalpa Samadhi (= total union with the Source without movement of

>mind).

 

Thank you very much for that short definition

of N. Samadhi. I have never really understood

what the samadhis are, tells you how little

experience I have with them .

 

Yes, at any rate, I do think you are right to

cite some sources here

about the fear of death

and desire to avoid it

dwindling down to nothing at the last stages of the spiritual

pathway. The body seems to me to be cast away

like a shell. There is no use of the vehicle

anymore as the trip is at its end.

>But all this also means that if our natural state is free and unlimited

>consciousness, it was that way also during all that time we were running

>around fulfilling desires, (even if this fact was never realised...)

 

A great paradox and a great puzzle, isn't it ?

>Maybe it's important not to put limiting and qualifying conditions on

>liberation or higher states and spiritual experiences in general. (I once

>read a serious treatise on yoga, in which the author claimed with confidence

>that "liberation and samadhi were only possible for Hindus"

 

LOL !

 

I've also seen something like:

No Westernes can become a Hindu, for to be

a Hindu one must be born a Hindu, i.e. be born

into a Hindu family.

>I've got the feeling that in the end, we don't even rise above the world, but

>rather again consciously become that out of which the world arises - and then

>maybe "all these things" simply aren't relevant.

 

) That's a great interpretation of the old

stuff and a great reminder.

 

Thank you very much for those insights.

 

Love,

 

Amanda.

 

 

 

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