Desire and Moksha

[Guest guest]

Dear Tony,

 

You asked:

> Is it possible to get Moksha with desires?

>

>Or do they feel one may just continue with desires as

>long as one's mind sees non-duality?

 

~~(M) Seems to me that desire as such has every right to exist at any

point of this process. There is absolutely nothing wrong with desire. It

is to my understanding completely consistent with human nature at any level

of being. Without desire for freedom, what would give us the impulse to

start this enquiry? To read, study, think, contemplate, practice and so on?

What could possibly be wrong with a desire for a beautiful woman or an

ice-cream? What would make such desire undesireable in a state of

wholeness?

 

What makes desire problematic, is not the desire and the fulfilment of this

desire, but the unfreedom associated with the negative outcome of any

individual quest for a desirous object. This is what makes desire

dangerous. Because it means that the mind as desire, has set into motion an

energy towards its fulfilment, and then cannot elegantly live with the

outcome.

 

My understanding here is that I do all in my power to have my desires

fulfilled,(depending on their relative importance to my present condition)

but should this be unsuccessful, I try to be as free from this reality as I

can through insight into the fact that Life has its own agenda, and cares

little, or absolutely nothing, whether this agenda fulfills my desires or

not. Life is an impersonal movement and my desires are part of this. There

is nothing written in the universe that it should go according to my wishes.

 

So in view of this fact of reality, desires are always modified and tempered

by the very real possibility that they may not be fulfilled. Such reality

consideration brings a sense of relativity to any process of desire, and

while functioning freely and participating fully in life, following my

impulses, I stand in a state of relative freedom from the outcome of such

desires.

 

It is also true that whiile the spiritualising process is at work in one,

and showing one the relativity of all certainties, as well as the deluded

certainty that the fulfilment of any desire will bring lasting happiness,

one loses the impulse towards the whole process of desiring (which is

always, of necessity motivated by the quest for happiness based on the

assumption that anything we could add to ourselves can actually make us

happy) and so it starts to fall away over time by non-use. This is not a

matter of right or wrong from an ethical perspective. It is just realised

over time that nothing that can be added to one's life will have any lasting

benefit and is in character conditional. Happiness obtained by adding

something to one's life, is conditional to the situation remaining stable.

And it is in the nature of things that nothing is stable. So ultimately the

quest for fulfillment through desire is abandoned.

 

But this does not mean that desire per se is in question. When desire is

free from its projected urgency to bring ultimate happiness, then the drive

towards its fulfillment, as well as the fulfillment is a simple matter of

pleasureable participation in life. In time, these desires may become very

simple and basic, but they are no barrier to anything spiritual. To want

to see the guru may be an acute desire. I see nothing wrong in this. But

if he should die while you are on your way to see him, the question is how

free can one then be in the face of this reality?

 

So freedom from desire is not the same as having no desires. To me this is

the question to be answered.

 

In love and thank you for your very thoughtful postings. They are much

appreciated.

 

Moller

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tony O'Clery <aoclery

nondualitysalon <nondualitysalon >

Cc: < >

11 March 2000 09:21

From dictionary to manual.

 

>Tony O'Clery <aoclery

>

>Namaste All,

>

>Second query: Where do people on these list feel

>desires come into the equation?

>

>

>How are samskaras effected by non-duality success?

>

>I personally have suggested that Moksha is impossible

>if one still has desires, no matter how realised,

>enlightened and non dual one's thinking is.

>

>I notice the Buddha says that the origin of suffering

>is craving. He also advocated morality in his eight

>fold path.

>

>Is there not karmas for desires?

>

>" Who so offends an inoffensive man,

> and innocent and blameless man,

> upon that fool evil turns,

> as fine dust thrown against the winds"Dharmapada

>125.

>

>How does meditation fit with this 'changing' of

>thoughts in non-duality?

>

>With regard to meditation, I pesonally use, in the

>final instance, Anapanasati or mindfulness of

>breathing, which I find takes me to a place of no

>experience but of Blissful remembrance of Peace and

>Love.

>

>I don't have a name for it, it could be anything from

>yoga nidra to Vedantic Samadhi, as opposed to Buddhist

>samadhis. Or perhaps that is what it is!

>

>

>Without going in too deep with Buddhagosa and

>Visuddhamarga etc. What about the withdrawal of

>senses?

>

>To illustrate e.g. Love at the gross level is mainly

>attachment and lust.

>At the subtle it is a hankering.

>At the causal it is surrender.

>

>Can one be non-dual successfully and still be at the

>first stage?

>

>So I suppose my question is; 'Is moksha possible with

>all these tendencies intact, no matter how non-dual

>one is?

>

>I don't want to get into a vegetarian fight here

>please, but what about the killing of animals and

>Ahimsa? Etc, Etc.

>

>Or is it that as long as one rises above the world one

>can do all these things with impunity? I can accept

>that a Jivanmuti may sometimes inadvertantly, but what

>about the weight of karma preventing Moksha?

>

>Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.

>

>

>=====

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