Gill/Who is Depressed?

[Guest guest]

Hi Gill,

Here are some answers to your responses to my answer!

>"Gill Collingwood" <gill

>

>I use St John's Wort, meditation and cognitve methods, which I

>suppose would be 'attitude adjustment'. And I'll try anything else

>which might work.

 

Are you familiar with SAMe? It is classified as a dietary supplement, not a

drug, and is available at General Nutrition Center and elsewhere, as well

on online at www.lef.org. I would say that SAMe is stronger than St. John's

Wort, but not as strong as the prescriptions drugs. It is very effective

for mild depression and has no side effects for most people. There's an

article on it at

http://www.lef.org/icontact/icontact_frameset.htm?http://www.lef.org/prod_hp

/php120.html

 

>

> > But there is always available, to the spiritually adept sufferer, a higher

> > level circuit breaker made available via practises such as meditation and

> > pranayama-type breathing, which releases one's energy flows to higher

> > levels of calibration through influxes from the subtle energy fields which

> > surround and interpenetrate the denser fields in which depression is

> > experienced.

>

>Sounds good, but I've not found meditation that helpful and I've

>generally steered clear of pranayama, partly because i find it

>difficult and partly because of all the 'warning' messages one reads

>about it!

Pranayama is a tool and like most tools these days it comes with warning

labels and instruction books. I find it particuarly helpful for easing

states of emotional unbalance - about 20 rounds of alternate nostril

breathing is wonderfully balancing...it doesn't take a lot.

As far as not find meditation that helpful....see below....

>These higher level energy influxes will seek to recalibrate the

> individual's personal drives and vectors to more nourishing and meaningful

> targets. As the individual moves away from self-esteem feedback loops

> involving base egoic/emotional/sexual signifiers, which ultimately stand

> revealed as meaningless, he or she opens up to higher level implosions of

> meaning which release the self-contraction to an open flow state in which

> galactic, archetypal sources provide an exquisite level of sustenance and

> creativity. This melts easily through the seemingly endless loops of

> depression, the contracting effects of extremely dense, narrow

> debilitating attempts to feed off of illusory positive

> material/sexual/social/emotional game outcomes, and fend off negative

> outcomes of the same, and replaces those loops with expansive, light,

> free, loving resources for well-being.

 

 

>Okay, I'll take your word for it. Now - how, exactly does one go

>about causing this to happen?!

 

 

>Good, now tell me some (easy) methods!

>gill

 

I don't know any easy methods. Sorry.

And I don't know any ways to "cause" things to happen like I describe. I

recorded them as phenomena that can be observed. And obviously I don't know

what meditation methods you tried or how long so I'm not commenting on your

particular case exactly...but if meditation is used as a therapy which

might work or not work, then the focus itself can limit the potential of

meditation. It's interesting that various schools of meditation avoid

making big claims for it, it is described as "nothing special" and "just

sitting", etc. Yet the insistence on it suggests that there is a great deal

of merit in "just sitting". I would describe it as the potential to

completely uproot the false self system. And since depression, in my view,

is a disease of the false self system, then the implication is obvious. But

meditating to relieve depression isn't what is needed. Instead, we need to

follow the radical, self-decentering activities of self-inquiry that is so

often talked about on this list. The key question is "Who is depressed". In

following this through in a long-term practice one MIGHT stumble upon the

corollary information that reveals "Who is NOT depressed" - within your own

awareness. For there is available to each of us, right now, an Awareness

that is not depressed, that, in fact, never has mood swings, that never

varies. Learning to cultivate that awareness and sit within for longer and

longer periods of time, and then to maintain it even without sitting in

meditation, is the key to the influx of forces I described. This doesn't

have to sound as daunting as it might. While it may not happen over a

period of a few weeks or months, I would say that a period of a year or two

is long enough for the uprooting to start to take hold.

 

Another tool is to "view everything as energy". One of the big confusing

factors in depression is that it generates its own mental content (the low

self-esteem loops, the anger, the resentment, the negative self-talk).

Learning to experience depression as energy robs it of that negative mental

talk. It helps (again, in mediation) to be able to visualize the depressed

feelings as a ball or object floating in space and then perceive what

color, weight, shape it has, what its emotional charge is, what it looks

like from behind, above, inside; what happens when you breathe into it,

etc. A couple of really good books about this process are "Quantum

Consciousness" and "The Tao of Chaos" by Stephen Wolinsky.

 

Again, I don't want to imply that there are any quick fixes. In my case it

took 15 years of suffering, self-inquiry, therapy, and life changes to get

over the worst of my depression. But I think depression is a very valuable

antagonist to have because it keeps you focused and motivated to continue

the quest!

David

[Guest guest]

I appreciate this honest and informative thread. And Gill and David's

comments and pointers ring very true, having been fired in the crucible of

suffering and experience. Thanks to you all!

 

Love,

 

--Greg

 

At 01:50 PM 3/13/00 -0500, David Hodges wrote:

>David Hodges <dhodges

>

>Hi Gill,

> Here are some answers to your responses to my answer!

 

.... lots of good stuff from both sides ...

[Guest guest]

Hi David,

> Are you familiar with SAMe? It is classified as a dietary supplement, not

> a drug, and is available at General Nutrition Center and elsewhere, as

> well on online at www.lef.org.<snip>

 

I checked out the link, (and did a search to see what else I could

find on it) and it does look very good, but I think the only way I

could afford it is if I were to stop eating!

> Pranayama is a tool and like most tools these days it comes with warning

> labels and instruction books. I find it particuarly helpful for easing

> states of emotional unbalance - about 20 rounds of alternate nostril

> breathing is wonderfully balancing...it doesn't take a lot. As far as not

> find meditation that helpful....see below....

 

I've tried the simple types of pranayama, and I agree they can be

helpful, but I don't find them very effective for depression. I'm going

to try the excercise Linda posted, and see what happens!

 

<snip>

> I don't know any easy methods. Sorry.

 

I realised later that it looks as if I'm looking for a quick fix. I'm not,

I'm just looking for something I can do with little time and no money!

 

<snip> But meditating to relieve depression isn't what is

> needed. Instead, we need to follow the radical, self-decentering

> activities of self-inquiry that is so often talked about on this list. <snip>

While it may not happen over a period of a few weeks

> or months, I would say that a period of a year or two is long enough for

> the uprooting to start to take hold.

 

I meditate because I like to meditate. Self-inquiry I find difficult and

unproductive (apologies to those of you reeling in shock), so I think

I need to use other methods, for now at least.

> Another tool is to "view everything as energy". One of the big confusing

> factors in depression is that it generates its own mental content (the low

> self-esteem loops, the anger, the resentment, the negative self-talk).

> Learning to experience depression as energy robs it of that negative

> mental talk. It helps (again, in mediation) to be able to visualize the

> depressed feelings as a ball or object floating in space and then perceive

> what color, weight, shape it has, what its emotional charge is, what it

> looks like from behind, above, inside; what happens when you breathe into

> it, etc. A couple of really good books about this process are "Quantum

> Consciousness" and "The Tao of Chaos" by Stephen Wolinsky.

 

I'll put them on my list of books to read, then.

> Again, I don't want to imply that there are any quick fixes. In my case it

> took 15 years of suffering, self-inquiry, therapy, and life changes to get

> over the worst of my depression. But I think depression is a very valuable

> antagonist to have because it keeps you focused and motivated to continue

> the quest! David

 

Well, I'm glad you found your depression useful. I was about to say

that life would be boring with nothing to fight, but actually I don't

believe that. I'd just like to wake up tomorrow and not be

depressed...and the next day and the next day and the next.

 

gill