Guest guest Posted March 20, 2000 Report Share Posted March 20, 2000 On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:36:49 Joyce Short wrote: >But, it would >have been interesting to me to hear of your experience with this, Amanda, in >your own words. In my own words ? Well, this is more difficult than to answer the koan "tell me one word of zen and I'll take my hat off for you". But I'll give it my best (or worst ?) shot. Be warned ppl, this is a long explanation: The reason I say the process with Kundalini emulates the death process (unfortunately I can't give a short answer to this): there is a dissolution of what one believes the self to be, there is a a definite shift of focus from the attributes one believes the mind / body of possessing to the witness state. Thus, by seeing and watching, one sees that words are not the self, emotions are not the self, the witness is devoid of any characteristic as it is the recipient of all else. It is in and of itself devoid of characteristics. >From the witness one can see emotions and thoughts and actions pass by, slowly or fast (easier to see when things are slowed down through meditation) and in this way, a dissolution of the self is done. In addition to this dissolution of the perceptive mind, there is also a dissolution of what the energy is per- ceived as and where it originates from. I was on my way to the bus station when this knowledge suddenly hit, happened one ordinary sunday afternoon: the energy is not inside me, I am in the energy, I am not the energy, as a shell containing the energy, but the energy is me and what I always assumed was me, as something built from the energy and by its inherent powers of creation. It can't really be explained, it is a radical shift in perspective. It is not /the/ realization, of course, but it does help loosen on the I-am-this feelings. This also means that it is the energy which is the sole proprietor of the physical body, however solid it may seem. It is only for borrowing and the licence can be revoked any minute. There is also an emptiness beyond the physical body and the light of the etheric (and other) bodies where consciousness remained even with the mind temporarily dissolved. I was made to see that there is something inherently common to every living things. Mainly humans as it is easier to merge with / take up their energies, but also animals and I suspect, material objects such as metals and plastic. I was in a plane today and its metal wings cleaved the air like a live being. So, the process slowly loosened the focus of consciousness from the physical body to what is behind the scenes. I take this shift from personal self to more impersonal energy / living beings / shared information to be somewhat akin to the death process of the mind. It is not finished yet of course. I have also been given numerous mental memento mori = reminders of physical death, and made used to the idea of personal death as well as images of death and decay without fearing them. On a somewhat side topic: Lately, I have had a sense of the life supporting emotions and the death seeking emotions, a push and pull in seemingly opposite directions starting to pull in the same direction, many energies being focused into one. As we have talked about on the list, depression and otherwise negative emotions can be seen to contain a large amount of energy. My personal feeling has been that there is a self destruct program set in this mind / body which seemed to be quite pointless, as the reason for having a body seems to me to be expression and life, not the seeking of annihilation. Nevertheless it is here, and I have just started exploring what it means and its reasons to be set in the mind /body, what it "is". So in exploring death for fear of it, I have come to see that there is no such thing. The reason I say the process removes the gender idea: Gender ideas are very external, cultural ideas, rooted in the need for identity. Through the workings of Kundalini many experience a dissolution of what they regarded as their male and female sides, sexuality and psyche, and when loosened, it was seen that acknowleding both these sides of the personality, a more whole perception was acquired and a more flexible and appropriate response to inner and outer events could be given. The reason I say Kundalini is a teacher: Almost immediately into the process, I was given verbal and visual instructions on what to do during kriyas etc, in the beginning even when to leave work to go into meditation. I read a few old books and was huh ? having no knowledge of Indian traditions at all. Feuerstein's book was the first I read and it was a good help to get an overview of traditions. Prior, Indian traditions to me had been pot smoking guru charlatans. I did not even know there was a lot of truth in the old Indian traditions before I started reading them a little. Then I received explanations and illustrations of what I had read in sleep from voices and presences I take to be the devaloka which I mentioned in a post a few days ago. In kashmir shaivism and other Indian traditions "dream teachings" (perhaps for extra dunce spiritual students ? ) are well known phenomenon, and it happened to me even though I was extremely sceptical to it on beforehand. There is a voice and a presence which sometimes asks me questions, reads scriptures and asks me to give an interpretation of them, to answer koans etc. Sometimes I'm even scolded for delivering the wrong answer (usually less than maximal effort) or for not paying enough attention (Hey, after all I'm physically asleep ). Sometimes I'm tested in moral situations, sometimes I have to do certain things with the energy as it spreads throughout the body more easily in sleep. Last night the teacher broke down my ability to produce language and forced me to communicate in a new way by breaking down the language facilities one by one and assmebling them in a new way, the result became something of Sanskrit language, language with sounds, not only meaning, but also with sound vibration that held a meaning independent of the words themselves. I take these nightly teachings to be a filtering down of vibrations = energy from the original source and handing my little mind what it needs when it needs it. >Ashes and Tantric masters in India are all very well, but I couldnt even tie >a sari correctly and didnt make much of a "Gopi". Well, I don't have a specific nationality any longer, through years of expat living and too much playing with expat ppl, But I probably make a nice gopi, if I could just stop stumbling in my own feet when Krisha plays that flute. No seriously, all major paths, from native spirit worship to Indian tantra to European Christian mysticism talk about the same thing, with emphasis on differing aspects. Kundalini... is just another part of that "thing". >Kundalini when it is an "it" - is quite dead and boring and just one more >thing to cling to in conceptuality. Yes, exactly, kundalini is just another concept of the mind. This is why I'm not going to mention for a while. Besides, I'm out of breath now as well. Love, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2000 Report Share Posted March 20, 2000 Hi Amanda, >>But, it would >>have been interesting to me to hear of your experience with this, Amanda, in >>your own words. > >In my own words ? > >Well, this is more difficult than to answer the >koan "tell me one word of zen and I'll >take my hat off for you". ))))))))) LOL! ))))))))))) Wonderful!! >The reason I say the process with Kundalini >emulates the death process >(unfortunately I can't give a short answer to this): >there is a dissolution of what one believes the >self to be, there is a a definite shift of focus from the attributes one >believes the mind / body of possessing to the witness state. I have never liked the term "witness" because it seems to deny that I am, that I am present. I prefer the metaphor of being an actor on a stage... who knows he is acting a role, playing a part... and can step off-stage and drop the character completely. >Thus, by seeing and watching, one sees that words are not the self, >emotions are not the self, the witness is devoid of any characteristic as >it is the recipient of all else. It is in and of itself devoid >of characteristics. Yes! They are part of the character... and the costumes and make-up etc., etc. >From the witness one can see emotions and >thoughts and actions pass by, slowly >or fast (easier to see when things are >slowed down through meditation) >and in this way, a dissolution of the self >is done. Or a movement of the focal point of consciousness out of the lower self entirely... >In addition to this dissolution of the >perceptive mind, there is also a >dissolution of what the energy is per- >ceived as and where it originates from. >I was on my way to the bus station when >this knowledge suddenly hit, happened >one ordinary sunday afternoon: >the energy is not inside me, I am in the energy, >I am not the energy, as a shell containing the >energy, but the energy is me >and what I always assumed was me, as something >built from the energy and by its inherent >powers of creation. You suddenly saw yourself on stage. ) (Too simplistic, I know, but it's only a metaphor. ) >It can't really be explained, it is a radical >shift in perspective. It is not /the/ >realization, of course, but it does help >loosen on the I-am-this feelings. >This also means that it is >the energy which is the sole proprietor >of the physical body, however solid >it may seem. It is only for borrowing and the >licence can be revoked any minute. This play might end. >There is also an >emptiness beyond the physical body and the >light of the etheric (and other) bodies where >consciousness remained even with the >mind temporarily dissolved. To me it seems that I am the energy at the axis of all the bodies... or I am the focal point of consciousness... a moving point... >I was made to see that there is something >inherently common to every living things. >Mainly humans as it is easier to merge with >/ take up their energies, but also animals and I >suspect, material objects such as metals and >plastic. I was in a plane today and its >metal wings cleaved the air like a live >being. Teilhard de Chardin, who was a scientist as well as a Jesuit, said that all matter, every atom, has a two-fold nature... consciousness (or spirit) is there in every atom. The consciousness of a small bit of matter is not the same, of course, as the consciousness in a more complex aggregate of matter and therefore of consciousness. It's in the first chapter or section of _The Phenomenon of Man_ ... not too easy to get into, because he had to invent some new words to say what he wanted to say. >So, the process slowly loosened the focus of >consciousness from the physical body >to what is behind the scenes. Yes!!! >I take this shift from personal self >to more impersonal energy / living beings / >shared information to be somewhat akin to >the death process of the mind. >It is not finished yet of course. > >I have also been given numerous mental >memento mori = reminders of physical death, >and made used to the idea of personal >death as well as images of death and >decay without fearing them. Nothing to fear... Death + rebirth = transformation. >My personal feeling has been that there is a >self destruct program set in this mind / body >which seemed to be quite pointless, as the >reason for having a body seems to me to be >expression and life, not the seeking of >annihilation. It seems that we can alter the program. >So in exploring death for fear of it, I >have come to see that there is no such thing. ------- >The smallest sprout shows there is really no death, >And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait at the end to >arrest it, >And ceas'd the moment life appear'd. > >All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses, >And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier. - Walt Whitman --------- >The reason I say the process removes the gender >idea: >Gender ideas are very external, cultural >ideas, rooted in the need for identity. >Through the workings of Kundalini many >experience a dissolution of what they >regarded as their male and female sides, >sexuality and psyche, and when loosened, >it was seen that acknowleding both these >sides of the personality, >a more whole perception was acquired >and a more flexible and appropriate >response to inner >and outer events could be given. Did you notice that someone recently referred to me as "he"? Doesn't matter... I may have been speaking through my male side in the last post he read. >The reason I say Kundalini is a teacher: >Almost immediately into the process, >I was given verbal and visual instructions >on what to do during kriyas etc, >in the beginning even when to leave >work to go into meditation. You had very good guidance... sometimes Shakti Kundalini herself is the guide. >Then I received explanations and >illustrations of what I had read >in sleep from voices and presences I take to be the devaloka which I >mentioned in a post a few days ago. > >In kashmir shaivism and other Indian traditions >"dream teachings" >(perhaps for extra dunce spiritual students ? > ) >are well known phenomenon, and >it happened to me even though I was extremely >sceptical to it on beforehand. I think many of us, maybe all of us, are learning during sleep... it's just that most don't remember the night-time "class.". >There is a voice and a presence >which sometimes asks me >questions, reads scriptures and asks me >to give an interpretation of them, to >answer koans etc. Sometimes I'm even scolded for >delivering the wrong answer >(usually less than maximal effort) or for not >paying enough attention >(Hey, after all I'm physically asleep ). >Sometimes I'm tested in moral situations, >sometimes I have to do certain >things with the energy as it spreads >throughout the body more easily in sleep. > >Last night the teacher broke down my ability >to produce language and forced me to >communicate in a new >way by breaking down the language facilities >one by one and assmebling them in a new way, >the result became something of Sanskrit >language, language with sounds, not only meaning, but also with sound >vibration that >held a meaning independent of the words >themselves. Very interesting! >I take these nightly teachings to be a >filtering down of vibrations = energy >from the original >source and handing my little mind what it needs >when it needs it. I think there are some things that are easier to learn when we're farther away from "normal" consciousness... seems that the more our experience is different from anything we know, the harder it is to remember. >Besides, I'm out of breath now as well. Not you... never out of breath... Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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