Guest guest Posted March 24, 2000 Report Share Posted March 24, 2000 At 04:33 PM 3/23/00 +0200, you wrote: >J M de la Rouviere <moller > >Dear Dan, > >Yes Dan, as usual you are perfectly right. Yours is indeed a very >interesting presentation of this 'practice'. It could indeed undermine >everything even itself. > >As an afterthought to my letter to Roger on some thing he send us about >Barry ?, I felt it may just be worth pointing to the traditional approach to >this method. They say take away everything, and what remains will be the >Self, reality etc. But they seem to approach the process from the position >that none of the things they reject are reality/Self. Ie, I am not my mind, >my body etc. To be able to say this, there must be knowledge of what the >I/Self is. So the whole thing starts with an assumption. If the Self is >All, and this Self is not my body, what is the body then? > >So I was trying to point to this difficulty in this practice which can be >very misleading unless understood as you have so beautifully explained it. > >Thank you for that. > >love and respect, > >Your Brother M Dear Mollersan, I concur. There indeed is a tendency to present neti, neti as a way to get to something. There is the assurance that Something will remain, a Self, an ultimate Being. Taken in its fullness, neti neti undermines the concept of somewhere to get or someone getting somewhere. And then it undermines itself, for there is then no position from which to state "neti, neti," nor any assumption upon which to base any further negation. Perhaps the kind of presentation of neti, neti, who you describe accurately, can be taken as luring a baby from its position by showing it a rattle. Once the baby is moving about freely, it discards its rattle and finds other ways to play. Ultimately, there is only "play" itself, for the baby and the playtoys have disappeared. :-) Love, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2000 Report Share Posted March 24, 2000 At 09:17 24/03/00 -0500, you wrote: >"Dan Berkow, PhD" <berkowd > >At 04:33 PM 3/23/00 +0200, you wrote: >>J M de la Rouviere <moller >> Please scroll down a ways... >>Dear Dan, >> >>Yes Dan, as usual you are perfectly right. Yours is indeed a very >>interesting presentation of this 'practice'. It could indeed undermine >>everything even itself. >> >>As an afterthought to my letter to Roger on some thing he send us about >>Barry ?, I felt it may just be worth pointing to the traditional approach to >>this method. They say take away everything, and what remains will be the >>Self, reality etc. But they seem to approach the process from the position >>that none of the things they reject are reality/Self. Ie, I am not my mind, >>my body etc. To be able to say this, there must be knowledge of what the >>I/Self is. So the whole thing starts with an assumption. If the Self is >>All, and this Self is not my body, what is the body then? >> >>So I was trying to point to this difficulty in this practice which can be >>very misleading unless understood as you have so beautifully explained it. >> >>Thank you for that. >> >>love and respect, >> >>Your Brother M > >Dear Mollersan, >I concur. There indeed is a tendency to present neti, neti > as a way to get to something. There is the assurance > that Something will remain, a Self, an ultimate Being. > Taken in its fullness, neti neti undermines the concept of > somewhere to get or someone getting somewhere. > And then it undermines itself, for there is then no > position from which to state "neti, neti," nor any > assumption upon which to base any further negation. > >Perhaps the kind of presentation of neti, neti, > who you describe accurately, can be taken as luring > a baby from its position by showing it a rattle. >Once the baby is moving about freely, it discards its > rattle and finds other ways to play. >Ultimately, there is only "play" itself, for the baby > and the playtoys have disappeared. :-) Hi, please excuse my butting in, without even hovering around the edge of the conversation first! I read this and I felt the urge to write... and agree somewhat... For me, this approach is designed to neutralise the *concepts* of the mind, including that of itself, ego, maya, nirvana, existence even. Descartes tried it and shied away at the point where he had to give up his mind... "I think, therefore I am", plus "God is not a deceiver" combined with (unspoken) Christian beliefs resulted in the mind/body split of the Western "Age of Reason". What fun that was. (is it over yet? Is it OK to come out from under the bed? ) Saying "Not this, not that" and being left with something means you are left with something you cannot discard, but not necessarilly something you can claim to be ultimately "real" in the terms you conceive of it. You leave a concept that you cannot discard because it reflects a limit to your selflessness I mean that in moral terms, and identity terms. But we need to choose our masks, because our interaction in life elicits a limited response, serially, in time. I'm not sure time works the way we in the West think it does, but that's another matter. We have to dance to a certain tune of circumstance, but hopefully we can expand our choice of how we dance. Thanks for letting me jump in like this. Love Rob > >Love, >Dan > > >------ >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% >Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! >http://click./1/936/5/_/520931/_/953907790/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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