Why wish for pain?K?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/00 12:25:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

aoclery writes:

 

<<

 

K rising can happen imperceptibly,as with japa,

realisation in some people doesn't require the

experiences of cleansing prana.

 

K doesn't really rise it manifests in different

vortices/chakras that's all.

 

It would be better if all could achieve moksha without

any experience at all.

 

If one continues with meat eating, drinking alcohol,

bad company, thoughts etc, one will continue to

experience cleansing prana, but it is nothing to be

proud of or revel in. It is like saying I am still

impure, lucky me. It is attachment to experiencing and

is binding.

 

Oh if we could achieve the Heart Centre without any

experience at all!!

 

Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.

>>

 

Tony,

l feel that in some respects your comments are simplistic and misleading,

as is so often the case in commentary about k. lt's true that in some cases k

appears to manifest in certain chakras rather than to rise. lt's equally

true that in many cases k definitely does rise.

 

l think it may also be true that in many

cases k doesn't require what appears to be the cleansing action of prana and

manifests in a more trouble-free way, but exactly why this occurs is by no

means clear. l for one have not eaten meat, drunk alcohol, had sex, kept bad

company, etc and l submit that my thoughts are no more impure than most k

people l've come across --- yet, l've had a 7-1/2 yr struggle with k that

continues. l don't know why this is so, and l don't believe that you or

other so called "experts" do either. There are many imponderable factors that

could be involved that are simply unknown.

 

l'm sure l am like many others who have unexpectedly found

themselves in this extremely difficult situation. Of course there is

suffering, and one's emotions run the gamut, including even the ones you've

mentioned. But overwhelmingly, what has developed for me are feelings of

increased depth, compassion, humor, gratitude and hope. ln the context of

what l'm experiencing, l can only say that your comments - about reveling

and feeling proud of this - sound trivial.

 

One doesn't revel in, or feel proud of such experiences, but rather

hopefully goes through stages of accomodation, acceptance and gratitude in a

painful learning and growing process. You speak of the desirability of

achieving the heart centre without experience. My own sense is that this sort

of thing may be at least partly why so many teachers like your friend Sai

Baba fall: they experience k and other spiritual realizations of some kind,

but their spiritual realizations are not sufficiently grounded in the type

of life experiences that would have taught them lessons they badly needed to

learn before flaunting their knowledge and power before the world.

One

doesn't need to glorify suffering in order to recognize that it can teach

humility, understanding and compassion - qualities that too few teachers have

embodied.

jerry

[Guest guest]

Namaste All,

 

K rising can happen imperceptibly,as with japa,

realisation in some people doesn't require the

experiences of cleansing prana.

 

K doesn't really rise it manifests in different

vortices/chakras that's all.

 

It would be better if all could achieve moksha without

any experience at all.

 

If one continues with meat eating, drinking alcohol,

bad company, thoughts etc, one will continue to

experience cleansing prana, but it is nothing to be

proud of or revel in. It is like saying I am still

impure, lucky me. It is attachment to experiencing and

is binding.

 

Oh if we could achieve the Heart Centre without any

experience at all!!

 

Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.

 

=====

http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/sanskritglos.htm

 

ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,

THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,

MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.

OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.

 

 

 

Talk to your friends online with Messenger.

http://im.

[Guest guest]

Jerry wrote:

 

<l'm sure l am like many others who have unexpectedly found

<themselves in this extremely difficult situation. Of course there is

<suffering, and one's emotions run the gamut>

 

<One doesn't revel in, or feel proud of such experiences, but rather

<hopefully goes through stages of accomodation, acceptance and gratitude in a

<painful learning and growing process.>

 

Jerry, thanks for spelling this out once again - kundalini rising can be the

origin of so many different health-related problems and I think it's pretty

futile to try to squeeze this phenomenon into rigid and moralistic categories

of purity and impurity.

 

I'm sure there's a certain karmic connection but, as you said, there are also

so many unknown parameters involved. I sometimes have the feeling the

universe or God or whatever you may want to call it, wants to get us to a

certain point and maybe suffering and pain is just a shortcut to that state

of being - however unpleasant the road there might be. Possibly the only

thing that really works is surrender and at the same time it's the most

difficult thing to do (for me at least:)).

 

I also sometimes ask myself, maybe it's the very act of surrender the

universe wants to produce ?

 

As for the question whether kundalini actually rises or only manifests in the

chakras or whether it only rises when there are impurities to be taken care

of, I can only draw on my own experience. What I've seen in myself is that

there's a very evident rising motion, going from the bottom of the spine

upward to the brain. This is strongest when I'm actually in a "pure" state,

i.e after having performed sadhana, meditation, asanas, pranayama etc.

 

I've on occassion actually also eaten meat, drunk wine and in general

committed all sorts of abominable acts, and here the activity of the shakti

has usually become dulled and sluggish. This seems to somewhat contradict

Tony's assessement of the why and how of kundalini-movement, but it's

probably true that there are no definite rules and that everybody needs to

find these things out for themselves.

 

All the best,

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

Michael wrote:

As for the question whether kundalini actually rises or only manifests in

the

chakras or whether it only rises when there are impurities to be taken care

of, I can only draw on my own experience. What I've seen in myself is that

there's a very evident rising motion, going from the bottom of the spine

upward to the brain. This is strongest when I'm actually in a "pure" state,

i.e after having performed sadhana, meditation, asanas, pranayama etc.

 

I've on occassion actually also eaten meat, drunk wine and in general

committed all sorts of abominable acts, and here the activity of the shakti

has usually become dulled and sluggish. This seems to somewhat contradict

Tony's assessement of the why and how of kundalini-movement, but it's

probably true that there are no definite rules and that everybody needs to

find these things out for themselves.

 

All the best,

 

Michael

 

Hi Michael. I am a long term vegetarian, and currently about 98% vegan but

try not to be too rigid. Sometimes I eat Indian sweets or cheese cake if the

social occasion demands it or if I am forced to do it. But heavy foods leave

me feeling heavy. So I prefer mangoes to Pizza and ice cream. I use soymilk

as a substitute for milk in my tea. During the summer, if I have the

opportunity, I go on a raw (fruits, vegetables) diet for some days.

 

Food does affect the manifestation of Shakti. In my 20s for a short time, I

experimented with eating Red Kidney Beans, fried in butter, with a little

bit of wine (half a cup or so) as prescribed for vegetarian tantrics. The

effect on my body was huge and I would quickly enter celestial states after

that. However, most people fall asleep after a big meal of Red Kidney Beans.

The difference is in the change of the internal system.

 

My experience was that Kundalini awakens from the bottom of the spine (also

from the bottom of the feet in certain situations), breaks the granthis and

goes to Sahasarara. After that process is completed, one can focus on any

center (Back and Front) and make the Shakti rise from that and experience

the power and nature of that center. Ultimately all centers are left behind

and one enters That, merging oneself in That. Instantaneously emerges That

It Self and One Sees that That Is Me, not essentially different from me,

gives life to me, and has always been Present.

 

Love

Harsha