K. psychosis

[Guest guest]

Hi Amanda,

>>I don't know why you think this... Ijust saw Deepak Chopra on TV talking

>>about his new book, _How to Know God_, and he talked about Jesus quite a

>>bit... quoted him saying, "In that day you will know that I am in the

>>Father, and the Father in me, and I in you."

>

>Well, that one must be easy.

>Not many ppl know who Deepak Chopra are here.

>Theological discussions, and I do stay on the

>watch for any talks on Christian mysticism

>at the theological institute here, but

>there so far (6 months) hasn't been a single

>one. Instead dicsussions on Christian theology

>here circles around

>whether young cpls should be allowed to move

>in together before marriage or not, or

>whether gay ppl should be allowed to work

>as ministers and what the Bible said about

>these matters.

 

I wouldn't call that theology!

>As you probably can understand,

>this minimizes at least my interest in

>participating in or even caring

>about these discussions.

 

Yes, it sounds like a waste of time for you... not to mention a big

yawwwwn. )

>Traditionally, Christianity here has been very

>puritan and dogmatic. At Easter you're not

>even allowed to go to the cinema as it is

>considered a sin and hence all cinemas are closed during the holiday.

 

Where are you anyway, Amanda? Are you in another country? I was hoping

you could get to the retreat in mid-July.

 

>>If you want theological discussion, read Gibbons' _Decline and Fall of the

>>Roman Empire_ It's amazing how concerned the Christians have been with

>>theological doctrine... thrones have been lost and battles waged in the

>>streets over differing interpretations of the nature of Trinity.

>

>Oh god, I do very well believe that.

>Strangely enough, I was standing with a copy

>of that book in my hand a few weeks ago,

>faintly considering byuing it, but then I

>thought the better of it.

 

I think you might enjoy it... I really got so interested I didn't want to

stop reading. But if you saw it in one volume, that might be an

abridgement... might leave out a lot of the interesting little details.

 

>>Teilhard de Chardin:

>>

>>>There, even the

>>>least of our desires and our endeavours will be gathered and preserved,

>>>and be able to evoke instantaneous vibration from the very heart of the

>>>universe.

>

> I am quite convinced not, Teilhard

>was / is a genuine Christian mystic.

>

>Thank you very much for sending the beautiful

>and very well written quotes from Teilhard.

>

>I am very fascinated by you saying he was a

>an anthropologist and palaentologist.

 

A geologist and paleontologist. Many Jesuits are genuine scholars.

>Palaentologists I think tend to be of the

>rather sceptical type, since they work with

>evolutionary philosophy.

 

I don't see why that would follow... I recall there was quite a wrangle

among archeologists a while back. I think it surfaced at an association

meeting in Mexico City in about 1970, when one of them revealed that he had

been working with a psychic. After all, why dig all over the place and

hope for something, when you can have a good psychic point out the right

spot to dig? ) I think this man delivered a paper, and the storm

practically split the association... turned out a fair number of them were

using psychics.

 

Teilhard was a scientist and scholar of considerable reputation, but his

more philosophical ideas that developed from his work and his spiritual

understanding got him into big trouble with the church. I think he was

banned from France, his own country, and not allowed to teach. He was

allowed to publish scientific papers, but not his great work, _The

Phenomenon of Man_. Someone published it after he died.

 

>>You are speaking here of the "ego" as something analogous to

"personality,"

>>but also something that can be obliterated. Jung was speaking of the ego

>>as part of a man's make-up... no psychiatrist or psychoanalyst would want

>>to obliterate a person's ego.

>

>No, no psychiatrist or psycholanalyst would

>want that to happen as there may be some

>dangers in it indeed.

>Yet seeing that the

>ego / personality is not equivalent with

>the I,

>that it is not owned by the body or the

>individual, is at least a fact for me.

 

The physical body, the emotions (emotional or astral body, kama-manas), and

the thinking mind (mental body, manas) are usually considered the

personality levels. All heavily influenced by the events, actions, and

reactions of this life, and even by the hormones of one sex or the other.

In addition, some would say the personal unconscious is intimately involved

with personality.

 

The ego is that "I-making" faculty that produces the kind of separative

consciousness that is necessary to manifest as a human being. This "I" is

usually expressing through the personality of this life, but they are not

identical. Some even use the term Ego to mean the soul, seen as that

intermediate "body" between spirit and personality.

>From a higher standpoint - that is, looking down from above all of these,

metaphorically speaking - they are all of the nature of bodies or vehicles

and none of them intrinsic to the Self. Nevertheless, for the Self to

manifest as a human being, it is necessary to use that "I-making" faculty

and to express in some way on personality levels... if not through the

personality of this life, then some substitute.

 

There are exceptions, notably 1) the Masts of India, who don't seem to be

capable of normal human expression and interaction, and 2) some holy men

who are no doubt capable of personality expression but don't find it

necessary because all of their needs are taken care of by their neighbors,

disciples, or monastery.

>>is all he is. Then stuff all

>>the energy of the God archetype into that circumscribed ego... and watch

>>it blow up like a huge balloon. Until it looks to him like this huge

>>divine personality that he is is bigger and better than anyone else.

>

> What a scary image that makes.

>What could pop that balloon I wonder.

>The power of one's own discernment ?

 

I don't know, his thinking mind might be all blown out of whack too. Maybe

sometimes it takes life events that force him to realize that he isn't what

he thought. Maybe Mike can tell us how he approaches that kind of

problem... but I wonder if that person would even go to a psychiatrist...

I wonder if a psychiatrist ever sees people like that unless they go round

the bend and are committed.

>>She didn't join my class, of course... she already had what she wanted

>>from it.

>

> Well, no wonder. Thank you very much for

>sharing that story with us. It does show the

>power of the mind and what a persuasive

>teacher can do.

 

No, I don't think it was my powers of persuasion. ) We're talking about

real energy here. She was already feeling it at the solar plexus in a

distressing way... I just gave her a way that she could use to move it up

to the throat chakra. She did, and it had the predictable results. We

didn't mention the word "chakra" and I didn't tell her exactly what it

would do... but if anybody shifts a lot of energy from the emotional

center to the communication/creativity center, the same kind of thing

should happen.

>>functioning very well. Unless the

>>person has worked with the higher chakras first and THEN come back to do

>>detailed work with the lower chakras. That's the safer way.

>

>Gloria Joy also mentions this on her web pages.

>Yes, I agree with you, tackling the

>lower chakras after the higher is a good

>choice, if one can choose to do that.

 

Well, one should be able to choose to do that. Most of us know how to

focus on mental stuff rather than emotional, for instance. And if raising

the energy to the throat center will result in certain activities, it works

the other way round too... if you start spending a lot of time at creative

activities... painting or writing a book, for instance... more energy

should rise to the throat chakra.

>>image." A person receiving lots of adulation and compliments might even

>>form a new ego image.

>

>No wonder. The adulations become believable.

>I think this may very well happen with

>ppl who become very famous.

>Must be difficult not to let adulation from

>others become

>something to bask in, though.

 

Yes, you have to notice the reactions going on, and keep on clearing.

Today's actions and reactions can become tomorrow's karma. New

patterns... habits of thinking and feeling... start forming... then your

future actions and reactions are influenced by them... karma.

 

>>Eventually, there's a new center where we take up

>>residence... it's on the border-line between conscious and unconscious.

>>From there, one can look in either direction. Jung calls this new center

>>the Self and says the inner guide is an archetype of the Self.

>

>About the border line

>b/n conscious and unconscious, did

>Jung think of the shared unconscious ?

 

He saw that the same universal symbols arise in people's dreams, fantasies,

and art in all places and all times, even when they could have had no way

of knowing about former occurrences of the same symbol. So he postulated

the collective unconscious that underlies all individual minds.

 

One of the most fascinating things he wrote is his own spiritual

autobiography, _Memories, Dreams, Reflections_. It isn't the usual "story

of my life." He's not so concerned with the outer happenings as with what

was happening with him on the inside... his dreams and realizations, his

exploration of his own unconscious, etc.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 9 Apr 2000 01:36:56 UnbrknCh8n wrote:

>I suspect that in many of these cases their recovery had nothing

>to do with the medication but was instead due to their body/spirit healing

>itself (I also recommend both traditional and nontraditional treatments to

>be used concurrently with pharmacotherapy).

 

Dear Mike,

 

You seem to be a rare psychotherapist indeed,

someone who is both well familiar with

Western medicine and the effects of

medication, but at the same time aware that

psychological disease may be caused and healed

through the spirit.

 

There are not many MDs or psychoanalysts /

psychologists who are strong in the knowledge

of both these approaches. Too many MDs are

unable to open up to the idea of the effect

of spiritual well being on disease

and too many psycholanalysts fall into the

trap of wholly overlooking the benefits

that Western medicine and science can bring

to patients.

 

You're the kind of practitioner I

would have liked to have the luck of

asking for help if needed.

Once I was in need of some help and the

MD adviced what I later realized was

a simple form of vipassana meditation

and it helped, tremendously.

>One of my struggles has been to not take it personally when one of my

>patients doesn't get better (or worse, kills him or herself). Of course, it

>is just my occasionally out of control ego which allows me to think that I

>have the power or ability to determine who among the patients who find

>their way to me gets better.

 

I can very well understand your concerns.

This was one of my reasons for not becoming

an MD in the first place.

 

I'd like to view ourselves as energy streams in

consciousness, each one is part of a particular

type of stream and the streams intertwine.

Our particular abilities, knowledge and

talents are elements of these streams

that can reach out and influence the energy of

other streams.

In one way, we are all god's instruments

whether we know it or not and as such

we try our best, but should not feel too

despondent if we do not reach that which we

had as goal. Maybe just trying to reach the

goal was the goal itself, that it's not

the distance we travel but what the road

gets out of us that counts.

 

This weekend I looked into the eyes of some

children and wondered where their thoughts

and emotions really come from.

I was not rewarded with an answer from the

children, only caught a glimpse of an infinite

emptiness that contained all possibilities

possible and impossible.

>Nevertheless, I wish that there were a little less pain in my

>life (I am still awfully attached to the idea of avoiding pain, but my

>awareness of this tendency is growing).

 

In many ways I think the fear of

physical and emotional pain is the last to

go, even after the fear of death and annihilation.

To me, it looks as if there may indeed

be "fates worse than death" and I for one

would be eager to try and escape such a fate.

 

Just some thoughts on a Sunday afternoon.

 

Love,

 

Amanda.

 

 

 

 

 

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com