Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Hi Gloria, lt seems like others have already said it: we want and need you too much on the list to let you go. Your last post was proof in itself -- as open and generous a sharing as l've heard on any list. All of your posts have been very helpful to me. You're ordered to remain..... please? love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 You guys are so totally funny! :--). OK, its time for the monthly group hug. Ho! Ho! Ho! Santa Mark Otter wrote: > Don't leave Glo, > > I'll go instead. (been causing all kinds of trouble) please forgive me. > > Love, mark > > Gloria Lee wrote: > > > This list has always been a sanctuary for me. A sacred place where > > love and > > kindness prevailed. In the year and four months of its existence I > > have never > > wanted to leave. > > > > Lately I have seen a lot of attacking and defending and hurt feelings. > > I am > > sorry to say that I myself appear to have wounded Annette in the > > attempt to > > defend my husband and his profession and life's work, in what appeared > > to me to > > be a non-factual implication of some evil conspiracy happening at the > > FDA. There > > was some attempt to balance viewpoints in the discussion about > > antidepressants. > > As someone who has manic-depressive illness that has caused 3 > > hospitalizations, > > cost me a job, and would have cost me a marriage if not for a > > miraculously > > understanding husband, I admit to having a bias towards the drugs that > > make a > > normal life possible for me. This illness is known to be genetic and > > nothing is > > known to enable a healing of it to the extent it is cured, merely > > relief from > > the worst of the symptoms. Nonetheless, people are being portrayed as > > responsible, indeed causing their own illness. When will you realize > > that the > > brain IS a physical organ subject to chemical imbalances, just as the > > pancreas > > causes diabetes when it fails to function properly? You may feel that > > you cause > > your own thoughts and feelings, but I assure you that the psychotic > > thoughts and > > out of control feelings that occur in a mania are NOT subject to the > > will and > > control of the one who suffers from them. > > > > I do not expect that others would share my intense emotions from > > singing the > > Songs of Children, as it is my experience and not theirs. However, I > > am > > bewildered by the lack of any interest to discuss them or compassion > > for the > > victims of the Holocaust. Instead there is an obsessive post after > > post focus on > > Hitler and having compassion for him. There does not seem to have been > > any real > > hatred for him to begin with, so I do wonder what all the fuss is > > about. Unless > > one had family members or was themself a victim of this horror, how > > can you > > possibly feel any need to forgive him? As with the Columbine killing, > > I assure > > you that whatever sorrow or grief you may imaginatively feel for the > > innocent > > victims is nothing compared with their family members. I think Kristie > > was > > attempting to make this same point when she said our difficulties with > > > > forgiveness need to to be focused on people in our own lives. My > > difficulty for > > the moment is right here with this list. > > > > I do not expect the list to cater to me, I simply wanted to express > > how > > difficult my presence here has become lately. My place of comfort has > > become a > > cause of anger and I really do not know what more to say about this > > hurt. I see > > that I am myself becoming a cause of hurt in the attempt to defend > > what is > > attacked here. I am trying to look at all this and process my feelings > > rather > > than just leave, as that would only make me even more sad. I do hope > > that when > > we write posts, we might consider more the feelings of others and show > > some > > understanding of different points of view. The people who are > > upsetting me also > > happen to be people I do love and I am remembering to have tolerance > > for the > > fact that people have different concerns due to their different lives. > > It helps > > some. > > > > With love, > > Glo > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 >Don't leave Glo, > >I'll go instead. (been causing all kinds of trouble) please forgive me. > >Love, mark Oh Mark, that was not my intention in writing. Please don't go. I thought I made it clear that my difficulty is due to this combination of all three issues happening at once. I include myself as one who wrote a very thoughtless post that upset Annette. We appeared to have attacked Mike's profession as a psychiatrist and yours as a research scientist. I include myself as one who is too attached to my particular biased point of view. I hoped to raise the issue of tolerance, not to drive you away. Please forgive me. Love, Glo > >Gloria Lee wrote: > >> This list has always been a sanctuary for me. A sacred place where >> love and >> kindness prevailed. In the year and four months of its existence I >> have never >> wanted to leave. >> >> Lately I have seen a lot of attacking and defending and hurt feelings. >> I am >> sorry to say that I myself appear to have wounded Annette in the >> attempt to >> defend my husband and his profession and life's work, in what appeared >> to me to >> be a non-factual implication of some evil conspiracy happening at the >> FDA. There >> was some attempt to balance viewpoints in the discussion about >> antidepressants. >> As someone who has manic-depressive illness that has caused 3 >> hospitalizations, >> cost me a job, and would have cost me a marriage if not for a >> miraculously >> understanding husband, I admit to having a bias towards the drugs that >> make a >> normal life possible for me. This illness is known to be genetic and >> nothing is >> known to enable a healing of it to the extent it is cured, merely >> relief from >> the worst of the symptoms. Nonetheless, people are being portrayed as >> responsible, indeed causing their own illness. When will you realize >> that the >> brain IS a physical organ subject to chemical imbalances, just as the >> pancreas >> causes diabetes when it fails to function properly? You may feel that >> you cause >> your own thoughts and feelings, but I assure you that the psychotic >> thoughts and >> out of control feelings that occur in a mania are NOT subject to the >> will and >> control of the one who suffers from them. >> >> I do not expect that others would share my intense emotions from >> singing the >> Songs of Children, as it is my experience and not theirs. However, I >> am >> bewildered by the lack of any interest to discuss them or compassion >> for the >> victims of the Holocaust. Instead there is an obsessive post after >> post focus on >> Hitler and having compassion for him. There does not seem to have been >> any real >> hatred for him to begin with, so I do wonder what all the fuss is >> about. Unless >> one had family members or was themself a victim of this horror, how >> can you >> possibly feel any need to forgive him? As with the Columbine killing, >> I assure >> you that whatever sorrow or grief you may imaginatively feel for the >> innocent >> victims is nothing compared with their family members. I think Kristie >> was >> attempting to make this same point when she said our difficulties with >> >> forgiveness need to to be focused on people in our own lives. My >> difficulty for >> the moment is right here with this list. >> >> I do not expect the list to cater to me, I simply wanted to express >> how >> difficult my presence here has become lately. My place of comfort has >> become a >> cause of anger and I really do not know what more to say about this >> hurt. I see >> that I am myself becoming a cause of hurt in the attempt to defend >> what is >> attacked here. I am trying to look at all this and process my feelings >> rather >> than just leave, as that would only make me even more sad. I do hope >> that when >> we write posts, we might consider more the feelings of others and show >> some >> understanding of different points of view. The people who are >> upsetting me also >> happen to be people I do love and I am remembering to have tolerance >> for the >> fact that people have different concerns due to their different lives. >> It helps >> some. >> >> With love, >> Glo > > >------ >eLerts >It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! >http://click./1/3080/5/_/520931/_/955473634/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Don't anyone go! Here's a group hug right now, XXXoooOO0000OOoooXXX, along with a pic of Bart Simpson. |\/\/\/| | | | | | (o)(o) C _) | ,___| | / /____\ / \ (if it looks scrambled, switch to a fixed-width font) Love, --Greg At 01:30 PM 4/11/00 -0400, Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: >You guys are so totally funny! :--). OK, its time for the monthly group hug. > >Ho! Ho! Ho! > >Santa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 At 12:38 11/04/00 -0400, you wrote: >This list has always been a sanctuary for me. A sacred place where love and >kindness prevailed. In the year and four months of its existence I have never >wanted to leave. Hi Glo, I've loved your posts, your compassion, your wonderful poetry, and the way you laugh... > >Lately I have seen a lot of attacking and defending and hurt feelings. I am snip> >I do not expect that others would share my intense emotions from singing the >Songs of Children, as it is my experience and not theirs. However, I am >bewildered by the lack of any interest to discuss them or compassion for the >victims of the Holocaust. I'm so sorry if personally I have caused you to feel lack of interest in your posts. That was not the case! On the contrary, I felt that the statements you made of the feelings you felt needed little comment, stood on their own. And I certainly did not want to water them down with my more removed understandings. I was moved by the poems though, and found myself wondering how many more poems had been written in more desperate places than Terezin, never to be seen by new eyes... My father was German, partly Jewish. He was exiled from Germany in the 30's because he took part in student demonstrations against the Nazis. He warned everyone in Paris he knew while he was there of the coming danger. He joined the Foreign Legion to escape certain imprisonment and almost certain death. He was interned in Algeria by the Nazis, and was liberated by the Allies. He survived the war, but many of his friends did not. I never really knew him, he died when I was one. I was fiercely bullied as a boy in England for being half-German. I was called Hitler's son, a Nazi and a bunch of other sweet names (from boys whose fathers had saved the world from evil), while being beaten. I soon became very interested in WWII, to overcome my shame at being an outsider, and to try to understand why my very presence was such a goad for violence. I learned many things in my early teens about both sides, and many grisly detailed stories of the death camps and the horrors of war itself. The bullying, the fear and the loneliness continued all the while. I became mentally "ill", psychotic, from the alienation, and my world became one where I saw my growth into adulthood as joining a race of insane torturers and liars, in a society that imprisoned ppl in their own lives to a sad dream of normality, while training them to kill and steal with a smile. Of course, I was deluded... Nevertheless, I did not decide to support Nazism, and never will. I saw in the pity of the lines of ppl heading for the "showers" in full knowledge of their deaths, trying to take their children's minds off the next few minutes, the power of love over the inevitable, a defiance that transcended death and cruelty. I'm sorry, Glo, if what I've just said has pained you further. However, I lived this gothic reality for about eight years, from 9 years to 17 years old, in both normal and altered states of mind. God knows why it was so important for me in this life. Maybe I had some payback coming from a past life. Who knows? All I know is that pain is inflicted in a multitude of ways, and death exists in life. What importance do any of us really have, in our egos, our sense of our national importance, our sense of any self worth, if it can be beaten out of us so readily? *Who* survives the pain? And what is learned? To see the finality of death for so many,and realise how easy it is to come about, what can we do but try to recognise the way it happens, and avoid it in ourselves? That is all I know. Instead there is an obsessive post after post focus on >Hitler and having compassion for him. There does not seem to have been any real >hatred for him to begin with, so I do wonder what all the fuss is about. You see, for me, the hatred angle was quickly shown to me as a totally subjective phenomenon, almost knee-jerk in its cruelty and its reasons. I hated the actions of my tormentors, but I saw how twisted it could make me, and others, and I saw in the actions of the Nazi machine the twistedness that I felt in response to the cruelty and pain I received. Perhaps I'm wrong: perhaps Hitler/Nazism was a prime cause of evil. However, my experience tells me that hatred is based on 1) ignorance, 2) pain 3) desire for power and perhaps 4) trying to lessen one's own fear. I saw how easily I could become the ppl who had hurt me, and inflict harm on others in similar ways. Believe me, I have had to work on this a lot. btw, my father before he died collected a batch of final letters from German soldiers abandoned and soon to die in the frozen indifference and brutality of Stalingrad 1942, and I hope soon to publish them. Those I have read have had a similar effect on me as the Terezin poems (though I know that children "should" be spared the horrors before adults)... Bless you, Glo, and forgive me if I've hurt you anymore. I just wanted to be open about my feelings. I think your singing these poems is an act of love, and admire you for it. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Glo }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Love Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Dear Gloria, I hope you don't leave. I have been too busy to follow the threads you describe, just scanning a few now and then before deleting, so I don't know what has been going on too well. It is unusual to hear arguing on this list, we know the history of the list has been very loving and supportive, as you say. Even though I post infrequently, I find your presence to be a very important and sustaining one on the list. So if you aren't hearing the voices of support and response to what you say, please know that I am here listening to you and often agreeing with or learning from your words, and there are probably many others like me on the list who for one reason or another are quiet, but are benefiting from your presence. Love, Jill At 01:21 PM 4/11/00 -0400, you wrote: >Don't leave Glo, > >I'll go instead. (been causing all kinds of trouble) please forgive me. > >Love, mark > >Gloria Lee wrote: > >> This list has always been a sanctuary for me. A sacred place where >> love and >> kindness prevailed. In the year and four months of its existence I >> have never >> wanted to leave. >> >> Lately I have seen a lot of attacking and defending and hurt feelings. >> I am >> sorry to say that I myself appear to have wounded Annette in the >> attempt to >> defend my husband and his profession and life's work, in what appeared >> to me to >> be a non-factual implication of some evil conspiracy happening at the >> FDA. There >> was some attempt to balance viewpoints in the discussion about >> antidepressants. >> As someone who has manic-depressive illness that has caused 3 >> hospitalizations, >> cost me a job, and would have cost me a marriage if not for a >> miraculously >> understanding husband, I admit to having a bias towards the drugs that >> make a >> normal life possible for me. This illness is known to be genetic and >> nothing is >> known to enable a healing of it to the extent it is cured, merely >> relief from >> the worst of the symptoms. Nonetheless, people are being portrayed as >> responsible, indeed causing their own illness. When will you realize >> that the >> brain IS a physical organ subject to chemical imbalances, just as the >> pancreas >> causes diabetes when it fails to function properly? You may feel that >> you cause >> your own thoughts and feelings, but I assure you that the psychotic >> thoughts and >> out of control feelings that occur in a mania are NOT subject to the >> will and >> control of the one who suffers from them. >> >> I do not expect that others would share my intense emotions from >> singing the >> Songs of Children, as it is my experience and not theirs. However, I >> am >> bewildered by the lack of any interest to discuss them or compassion >> for the >> victims of the Holocaust. Instead there is an obsessive post after >> post focus on >> Hitler and having compassion for him. There does not seem to have been >> any real >> hatred for him to begin with, so I do wonder what all the fuss is >> about. Unless >> one had family members or was themself a victim of this horror, how >> can you >> possibly feel any need to forgive him? As with the Columbine killing, >> I assure >> you that whatever sorrow or grief you may imaginatively feel for the >> innocent >> victims is nothing compared with their family members. I think Kristie >> was >> attempting to make this same point when she said our difficulties with >> >> forgiveness need to to be focused on people in our own lives. My >> difficulty for >> the moment is right here with this list. >> >> I do not expect the list to cater to me, I simply wanted to express >> how >> difficult my presence here has become lately. My place of comfort has >> become a >> cause of anger and I really do not know what more to say about this >> hurt. I see >> that I am myself becoming a cause of hurt in the attempt to defend >> what is >> attacked here. I am trying to look at all this and process my feelings >> rather >> than just leave, as that would only make me even more sad. I do hope >> that when >> we write posts, we might consider more the feelings of others and show >> some >> understanding of different points of view. The people who are >> upsetting me also >> happen to be people I do love and I am remembering to have tolerance >> for the >> fact that people have different concerns due to their different lives. >> It helps >> some. >> >> With love, >> Glo > > >------ >eLerts >It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! >http://click./1/3080/5/_/520931/_/955473634/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the > ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where > the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true > devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from > within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the > menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Dear sweet Glo, >This list has always been a sanctuary for me. A sacred place where love and >kindness prevailed. And you have been a very important part of that. It seems to me that you may be the heart chakra of this list... or you and Harsha together. >In the year and four months of its existence I have never >wanted to leave. > >Lately I have seen a lot of attacking and defending and hurt feelings. Yes. And it has really gone too far when our own Glo is bleeding. > I am >sorry to say that I myself appear to have wounded Annette in the attempt to >defend my husband and his profession and life's work, in what appeared to >me to >be a non-factual implication of some evil conspiracy happening at the FDA. I've just read your post, the one I think you're referring to, and I don't see anything offensive about it. I wouldn't worry about offending Annette with our naivete, which she says is what she can't stand and what has driven her off the list temporarily. If there is naivete here, it is a divine naivete that comes from love and a willingness to always look at both sides of every controversy. When friends and loved ones oppose each other on a modern plain of Kurukshetra, the wise man looks for the way to resolve the opposition in a new balance that will restore hozho, harmony. And that may require the divine naivete that can regard the plain from a higher viewpoint. >There >was some attempt to balance viewpoints in the discussion about >antidepressants. >As someone who has manic-depressive illness that has caused 3 >hospitalizations, >cost me a job, and would have cost me a marriage if not for a miraculously >understanding husband, I'm so sorry to hear that... I didn't know you were carrying that burden. > I admit to having a bias towards the drugs that make a >normal life possible for me. This illness is known to be genetic and >nothing is >known to enable a healing of it to the extent it is cured, merely relief from >the worst of the symptoms. Nonetheless, people are being portrayed as >responsible, indeed causing their own illness. When will you realize that the >brain IS a physical organ subject to chemical imbalances, just as the pancreas >causes diabetes when it fails to function properly? I know that is so. I hope that knowledge is some comfort to you. When I was sick with CFS/MS, I sometimes suffered depression and even paranoia due to the temporary brain damage. It was a great help to me to understand the cause. >You may feel that you cause >your own thoughts and feelings, but I assure you that the psychotic >thoughts and >out of control feelings that occur in a mania are NOT subject to the will and >control of the one who suffers from them. No, it is NOT your fault. Someone might make a case for it by saying that you chose and planned this life before you entered into it, but then that must be applied also to the one who reasons that way... whatever in his/her life that may not be to his liking is his fault, since he chose and planned his life. >I do not expect that others would share my intense emotions from singing the >Songs of Children, as it is my experience and not theirs. However, I am >bewildered by the lack of any interest to discuss them or compassion for the >victims of the Holocaust. I confess to not having written about that. My only excuse is that I too saw "obsessive post after post"... I didn't think anything I said would matter in this case, and I just withdrew, didn't read most of them. I was alive during WWII... it is not for me a matter of something I've read about and can enjoy arguing about. I lost someone very dear to me in that war. I was a child in the middle of Indiana, but I remember the horror and terror of the red night skies lit up with the bombs and the fires... it is so real to me that I think there must have been some psychic sharing, maybe in dreams. But none of us living then were untouched by that war... for many of us it is not easy to talk about the things that happened then. >Instead there is an obsessive post after post focus on >Hitler and having compassion for him. There does not seem to have been any >real >hatred for him to begin with, so I do wonder what all the fuss is about. >Unless >one had family members or was themself a victim of this horror, how can you >possibly feel any need to forgive him? As with the Columbine killing, I assure >you that whatever sorrow or grief you may imaginatively feel for the innocent >victims is nothing compared with their family members. I think Kristie was >attempting to make this same point when she said our difficulties with >forgiveness need to to be focused on people in our own lives. Yes, I think our own _need_ to forgive is intimately tied with our own spiritual progress, with our need to clear away whatever is hampering us. If someone has hurt us and we have not forgiven, what does it mean? What sorrow and grief, what anger and despair and hatred are we still holding somewhere within us? And those things have become the karmic stuff of the present, the actual blocks that hamper our progress in the most literal way, by actually blocking the movement of Kundalini within us and blocking our access to spiritual energies and experience. That is why we need to forgive. Teegee's post made me think. I had never thought that Hitler needed my forgiveness, or that I needed to forgive Hitler. But then I remembered the dear one I lost in that war... and what it has meant for my life. So maybe there was a need to forgive. If so, I think I have done it. I have worked hard to forgive all those who have hurt me and mine in this life and in other lives. Some things are indeed beyond my understanding... how or why people do some of the things that they do. The only way I found to forgive everything was to look at myself and forgive myself for everything too... to understand that I always come into incarnation to help and to learn to love more and better... and so do we all. This world isn't easy... it isn't easy growing up here... and sometimes we are hurt and warped... sometimes we are taught unfortunate things... and we make mistakes, sometimes terrible mistakes. But we were trying to learn to love more and better. I have made mistakes, in this life and in other lives... sometimes I did terrible things... but I was always trying to learn to love more and better... so I forgave myself... and then I could forgive all the others too. Love them and forgive them... and let go. Let go of the pain, the grief and anger... give it to God/dess... clear it away, out of my system, out of all my bodies... And let go of those people too, the ones I loved, who hurt me anyway... love them, forgive them, and let go. Occasionally I find something more of old griefs coming up for my attention, old memories - or possibly just the feelings without specific memories. I use the techniques I know to clear all those feelings, all that grief. If I remember someone who's hurt me - maybe someone I've hurt too - then I love and forgive, and release. Love and forgive them - and myself, if it comes up - and let go. Open my hands, and let all the old stuff go. >My difficulty for >the moment is right here with this list. > >I do not expect the list to cater to me, I simply wanted to express how >difficult my presence here has become lately. My place of comfort has become a >cause of anger and I really do not know what more to say about this hurt. >I see >that I am myself becoming a cause of hurt in the attempt to defend what is >attacked here. I am trying to look at all this and process my feelings Yes, that's what's important. Forgive yourself... love and forgive us all... and let go of it. > rather >than just leave, as that would only make me even more sad. It would make me sad too. >I do hope that when >we write posts, we might consider more the feelings of others and show some >understanding of different points of view. I hope your letter will help people to realize that when they think they're talking about some big faceless group... all Jews, all Christians, all psychiatrists, all doctors, "the FDA," all people who take drugs, all people who don't take drugs... well, this is a big list and some of "those people" are probably list members right here. So let's remember that what we're saying about a big group of people, we're probably also saying about someone on the list. In general, I mistrust categorical statements... talking about _all_ of any kind of people or any profession. It's highly unlikely to be true, and it's usually a sign of a closed mind. In general, I just don't answer such stuff... if someone has a closed mind, then what's the point of arguing with him? So I just skip on past and look for the good stuff. ) One thing you might find helpful, Glo... I've used it myself. My email program, Eudora, allows me to filter out certain posts. So when one or two people are really annoying me, I may just filter them out for a while. That means that when my mail comes in, every post with those names on it goes straight into my Trash, and I never see them. I just checked, and posts can also be filtered out by the subject line. I could filter every post with a specific subject line, or I could filter for one word and trash every post that has that word in the subject line. These are not irrevocable actions... you can filter the stuff, and then at any time you can look at your Trash and read some... and see if people or issues have changed. You can always change the filters... or just kill them. I hope you won't leave us, Glo. Love and peace, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Dear Gloria, Don't think that silence is not a response to those poems. love, andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2000 Report Share Posted April 11, 2000 Glo writes: >We appeared to have attacked Mike's profession as a psychiatrist. . . Hi Glo and all! Thanks for your concern and kind words, but at no time here have I really felt personally attacked (maybe I should go back and read the posts from the last couple of days to see if I can built a nice, fun, resentment ;-) Fortunately for me, I really don't identify all that much with being a psychiatrist or M.D., and I'm kinda used to people being down on us shrinks (which I haven't felt at all here in this cozy corner of cyberspace). However, if somebody started generalizing about Deadhead scuba divers in recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction, watch out! I have been on this list but a short time, but have really been made to feel comfortable here by y'all (and Harsha- your always-present compassionate voice of reason and love is lovely!) What am I trying to say? Well, I really haven't a clue, except thanks (and I bow before all of your radiant presences) With love- Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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