Guest guest Posted April 13, 2000 Report Share Posted April 13, 2000 >Hi Glo, > > >I'm so sorry if personally I have caused you to feel lack of interest in >your posts. That was not the case! On the contrary, I felt that the >statements you made of the feelings you felt needed little comment, stood >on their own. And I certainly did not want to water them down with my more >removed understandings. I was moved by the poems though, and found myself >wondering how many more poems had been written in more desperate places >than Terezin, never to be seen by new eyes... > >My father was German, partly Jewish. He was exiled from Germany in the 30's >because he took part in student demonstrations against the Nazis. He warned >everyone in Paris he knew while he was there of the coming danger. He >joined the Foreign Legion to escape certain imprisonment and almost certain >death. He was interned in Algeria by the Nazis, and was liberated by the >Allies. He survived the war, but many of his friends did not. Dear Robert, You must be very honored to have such a man for a father. Thank you for telling his story here. There are many heroic and noble stories from this era that have yet to be heard. Tho I am sorry you were so mistreated, I think the way you yourself overcame the bullying and developed a deeper understanding is another one of them. Stories of people who would not give in to the hatred and fear around them hold a deep fascination for me. Like Holly mentioned, I studied this on my own because it was such a deep shock to my soul when I first found out about it as a child. This was nothing near what you went thru, Robert, but there was a need for the solace of knowing there were good people and that not everyone gave in to the evil of those times.There was a time in my youth when I read many books about people like Corrie Ten Boom, who hid Jews in their house in Holland and ended up in the camps with them as a result. There was courage and kindness even there, remarkable stories of overcoming hatred. After the war, she went back to her former camp guards to help them heal and let them know they were forgiven. I spent many hours trying to imagine if I could have had the courage to do what she did. > >snip >You see, for me, the hatred angle was quickly shown to me as a totally >subjective phenomenon, almost knee-jerk in its cruelty and its reasons. I >hated the actions of my tormentors, but I saw how twisted it could make me, >and others, and I saw in the actions of the Nazi machine the twistedness >that I felt in response to the cruelty and pain I received. Perhaps I'm >wrong: perhaps Hitler/Nazism was a prime cause of evil. However, my >experience tells me that hatred is based on 1) ignorance, 2) pain 3) desire >for power and perhaps 4) trying to lessen one's own fear. I saw how easily >I could become the ppl who had hurt me, and inflict harm on others in >similar ways. Believe me, I have had to work on this a lot. This is very admirable, Rob. What you went thru can leave scars on anyone. What you have written is helpful to me. I can't really imagine what all this was like for you to live thru or how you recovered from it. I didn't plan to re-visit all these issues, when the singing began back in Jan. If possible, the music is even more emotional than the poems as written. Many dropped out at the start, some even saying it was just too depressing to be reminded of all that. What is most difficult is to find a way of understanding evil that does not merely whitewash or minimize the harm it does or pretends it does not happen. I know this may be an unpleasant topic for many. I am not wanting to say now let's make Hitler, or the Germans, become the scapegoat and symbol of evil that they made of the Jewish people. That is merely repeating it by turning the tables, only more projection, as you pointed out. Actually, the whole beauty of the message of these children's poems was how they made a joyous affirmation of life even in those circumstances. It somehow became a joyous experience to sing them. Love for the children became a love of sharing their words to us. > >btw, my father before he died collected a batch of final letters from >German soldiers abandoned and soon to die in the frozen indifference and >brutality of Stalingrad 1942, and I hope soon to publish them. Those I have >read have had a similar effect on me as the Terezin poems (though I know >that children "should" be spared the horrors before adults)... It is very touching that you would become the custodian of those letters your father collected. I would very much like to get a copy of the book when you do publish them. > >Bless you, Glo, and forgive me if I've hurt you anymore. I just wanted to >be open about my feelings. Oh my, no hurt, no way. You have really helped. It's all been a very emotional time and the whole choir opened themselves to sharing this grief and deep love. The composer came and he is such a gentle, soft-spoken, spiritual being. He took a whole year to write this music, partly because he himself needed some breaks from the intensity. The response of the audience was awesome, the children have been heard. I feel you have heard them without needing to be there. Much love, Glo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2000 Report Share Posted April 13, 2000 At 00:22 13/04/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Dear Robert, Dear Glo! Thank you for this lovely post. Especially as you have much of your own to deal with at present. Please don't feel alone! Funny how things just kinda work out sometimes, don't they?... > >You must be very honored to have such a man for a father. It is easy to idolise someone one has never argued with! ) It took many years, however, before I could find someone who gave me a description of his human frailties too, but that made me love him as a real person, because he achieved something of integrity despite being imperfect. I am sure there are many ppl out there who are as he was, but I am glad to be *his* son. Ironic I never had much chance to show him how I felt... Thank you for telling >his story here. There are many heroic and noble stories from this era that have >yet to be heard. Times of adversity test the soul. And ppl amaze me. I knew a man in Leeds twenty years ago, who had gone into a concentration camp at 5, left at 11, and had lost about fifty family and friends. I have *never* met anyone who showed such lack of fear in life! His heart was bigger than the room he walked into! I could feel it arrive! He taught me to have pride in my German name, because I had been teased about it (it rhymes with "vile") as a child. Such a simple thing... yet the *way* he looked into my eyes as he told me that it was a "perfectly good German name" went deeper than that. He was telling me that there was *nothing* to fear. And he was the walking proof. Tho I am sorry you were so mistreated, I think the way you >yourself overcame the bullying and developed a deeper understanding is another >one of them. I am not a hero. This is way too small a scale. I was given a task to do, and struggled through. Things that have happened to others I probably would not have dealt with so well. I believe (without any visible means of support) that we are given as much as we can handle. We often just don't realise how brave, strong, kind, understanding, knowledgeable and powerful we really are. Stories of people who would not give in to the hatred and fear >around them hold a deep fascination for me. Like Holly mentioned, I studied this >on my own because it was such a deep shock to my soul when I first found out >about it as a child. For me too! "Hey, why didn't anyone warn me about these humans?What, you mean I'm like *them*, as a human being?Euuuw, gross!Oh, OK... I *could* imagine myself being like that, I suppose.**Ahah!**, so *that's* how it works..." <LOL> This was nothing near what you went thru, Robert, but there >was a need for the solace of knowing there were good people and that not >everyone gave in to the evil of those times. I don't believe that about it being "nothing near" for you, Glo. The information is the same. I just had it pushed in my face, and bless them for making it something I couldn't duck. How much can one stand about the unpalatable truths? I reckon we can surprise ourselves... Suffering is subjective. My pain was big for me, dug deep, but I have never had my leg blown off by an anti-personnel mine in Cambodia while playing in a field, or been raped or tortured in South America to get information about my brother. Another's pain can easily make mine seem like small beer in comparison. It is what the pain means to the person that brings the lessons. imo. There was a time in my youth when I >read many books about people like Corrie Ten Boom, who hid Jews in >their house in Holland and ended up in the camps with them as a result. There >was courage and kindness even there, remarkable stories of overcoming hatred. >After the war, she went back to her former camp guards to help them heal and let >them know they were forgiven. I spent many hours trying to imagine if I could >have had the courage to do what she did. Amazing story! I'm not sure I could have done that. A light must have come on in her mind, and she "saw" the path to be taken. Perhaps one gets to a point where one is no longer important to oneself, one has no need to defend a position any more, one just sees oneself and the other person as part of the same moment, united in the common experience of suffering. Perhaps she saw how to stop the wheel, to end the hatred. > >> >>snip >>You see, for me, the hatred angle was quickly shown to me as a totally >>subjective phenomenon, almost knee-jerk in its cruelty and its reasons. I >>hated the actions of my tormentors, but I saw how twisted it could make me, >>and others, and I saw in the actions of the Nazi machine the twistedness >>that I felt in response to the cruelty and pain I received. Perhaps I'm >>wrong: perhaps Hitler/Nazism was a prime cause of evil. However, my >>experience tells me that hatred is based on 1) ignorance, 2) pain 3) desire >>for power and perhaps 4) trying to lessen one's own fear. I saw how easily >>I could become the ppl who had hurt me, and inflict harm on others in >>similar ways. Believe me, I have had to work on this a lot. > >This is very admirable, Rob. What you went thru can leave scars on anyone. What >you have written is helpful to me. I can't really imagine what all this was like >for you to live thru or how you recovered from it. Well, s'OK, I went mad! )) That helped... strangely. My psyche knew what to do... In that space I could symbolise what I couldn't bear directly, and there I could work on understanding the processes. ) And I have had the good fortune to meet some wonderfully kind and unafraid ppl ). I didn't plan to re-visit all >these issues, when the singing began back in Jan. If possible, the music is even >more emotional than the poems as written. Many dropped out at the start, some >even saying it was just too depressing to be reminded of all that. Perhaps they didn't need to go through this at the present time? I feel such things feed the soul that needs it. Otherwise it tends to back up... Intense stuff, after all. ) I am so admiring of your carrying on with it, because it is putting you through some changes... snip>I am not wanting to say now let's make Hitler, or >the Germans, become the scapegoat and symbol of evil that they made of the >Jewish people. That is merely repeating it by turning the tables, only more >projection, as you pointed out. Actually, the whole beauty of the message of >these children's poems was how they made a joyous affirmation of life even in >those circumstances. It somehow became a joyous experience to sing them. Love >for the children became a love of sharing their words to us. Passing the torch on... snip> >It is very touching that you would become the custodian of those letters your >father collected. I would very much like to get a copy of the book when you do >publish them. I would be so glad to pass them on to you, and be interested in your feelings and comments. I intend to make it a (CD-ROM-based?) hypertext medium: that is, the letters form a seed crystal, and additonal commentaries, replies from relatives and others, and spin-off topics can grow from them. That way it is more cooperative, it grows and ppl have a chance to respond, not just to receive. It can grow with every edition. It can be multimedia too, if that turns out to be relevant. So music and film could be incorporated. If anyone wants to join in, I'm here. Patience, tho', this may take a little while, you know how it is! ) >> >>Bless you, Glo, and forgive me if I've hurt you anymore. I just wanted to >>be open about my feelings. > >Oh my, no hurt, no way. You have really helped. Thank you for saying that! I was concerned that I may have added to your burden, instead of reaching out to you. It's all been a very emotional >time and the whole choir opened themselves to sharing this grief and deep love. >The composer came and he is such a gentle, soft-spoken, spiritual being. He took >a whole year to write this music, partly because he himself needed some breaks >from the intensity. I can understand that! The response of the audience was awesome, the children have >been heard. I feel you have heard them without needing to be there. I would love to hear the music, Glo. I make music, and I know how much it can heal and connect ppl. Catharsis... Wish I could hear the songs... Love Rob >Much love, >Glo > > > >------ >1.6 Million Digital Images! >Download one Today from Corbis.com >http://click./1/3356/5/_/520931/_/955599942/ >------ > >// > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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