A Turiya Dialogue

[Guest guest]

Fri Jan 29, 1999 6:04am

Re: Turiya

[PARA] > "Linda Callanan" sjhar@w...[PARA]>[PARA]> Dear

Jan:[PARA]>[PARA]> I have understood Turiya to be the 4th stage of

consciousness - the point[PARA]> when Siva and Sakti merge and the

'indescribable' state to be[PARA]> that of final[PARA]> merger beyond the

state of Turiya. In your opinion is Turiya the final[PARA]>

stage?[PARA]>[PARA]> Linda[PARA][PARA]Jan: You can recognize your real

nature only once. This is Self-realization or[PARA]enlightenment.

Technically, this is the fourth state, as it is the state of[PARA]pure

consciousness, independent of the three other states. What happens

next[PARA]could be called a gradual adaptation of mind and body. Another way

of[PARA]putting it is that a process of distillation will take place and the

fourth[PARA]state remains; the other ones are evaporated. Still another way

is to say at[PARA]enlightenment one's true nature is obvious, but in daily

life one isn't[PARA]fully aware of it; there are veils preventing one to be

continuously aware[PARA]f it and the veils have to be removed. One might

also say that, after[PARA]"experiencing" that consciousness is self-aware,

the "old" identifications[PARA]are seen as illusory but they still are

present and exert their influence.[PARA]So a process will take place,

gradually disabling all identifications,[PARA]leaving pure consciousness in

a living body. As the fourth state is[PARA]extremely subtle, it can only be

known to the full when the other states are[PARA]absent. This is why it is

said Turiya is the "final" stage. The process that[PARA]will remove

subsequent veils/identifications is Kundalini; the union of[PARA]Shiva and

Shakti is one station of the road.[PARA][PARA]Jan[PARA][PARA][PARA]Harsha: I

think Jan's explanation is practical and makes sense. In

advaita[PARA]vedanta Turiya is arrived at following the analysis of other

three states[PARA](sleeping, dreaming, dreamless sleep). Nirvikalpa Samadhi

is another name for[PARA]Turiya. Sahaj Samadhi can be called Turiyatitta.

These distinctions are only[PARA]from the perspective of the mind however.

When the mind merges in the Heart that[PARA]is the Self, it takes everything

else with it. Turiya is Turiyatitta, when the[PARA]full import of the non

dual state is realized and all distinctions including[PARA]those of

spiritual states vanish entirely. Note the following I wrote

earlier.[PARA][PARA][PARA]> Some say that Reality is Subjective, some say

it is Objective and[PARA]> some say it is both Objective and Subjective and

some say it is neither.[PARA]> Some say the Final State is that of Pure

Existence, some say it is Only Pure[PARA]> Non-Existence and some say It is

beyond both Existence and[PARA]> Non-Existence. No matter, how clever the

terminology and how subtle the[PARA]> expression of the experience of the

Self, it misses the mark. It is because[PARA]> the Self has[PARA]> no point

of Reference in experience being *It Self* the very Foundation on[PARA]>

which[PARA]> All experience appears to take

place..[PARA]>[PARA][PARA][PARA][PARA]> Harsha[PARA]>[PARA]> Also note the

following:[PARA]>[PARA]I just came across a simple but beautiful passage

(from Atma[PARA]> Vidya...Sage of Arunachala). It states: "When you have not

understood[PARA]> yourself, what is the point in understanding other things?

When you have[PARA]* understood yourself, what else is there to

understand?[PARA][PARA]Love to all[PARA]Harsha

 

 

//

[Guest guest]

Hello Everyone. I posted this last night. This morning I heard from Dharma

saying the formatting was off. Here it is again. A dialogue on Turiya with

Linda, Jan, and myself from early last year.

 

Harsha

> "Linda Callanan" sjhar@w...

>

> Dear Jan:

>

> I have understood Turiya to be the 4th stage of consciousness - the point

> when Siva and Sakti merge and the 'indescribable' state to be

> that of final

> merger beyond the state of Turiya. In your opinion is Turiya the final

> stage?

>

> Linda

 

Jan: You can recognize your real nature only once. This is Self-realization

or

enlightenment. Technically, this is the fourth state, as it is the state of

pure consciousness, independent of the three other states. What happens next

could be called a gradual adaptation of mind and body. Another way of

putting it is that a process of distillation will take place and the fourth

state remains; the other ones are evaporated. Still another way is to say at

enlightenment one's true nature is obvious, but in daily life one isn't

fully aware of it; there are veils preventing one to be continuously aware

f it and the veils have to be removed. One might also say that, after

"experiencing" that consciousness is self-aware, the "old" identifications

are seen as illusory but they still are present and exert their influence.

So a process will take place, gradually disabling all identifications,

leaving pure consciousness in a living body. As the fourth state is

extremely subtle, it can only be known to the full when the other states are

absent. This is why it is said Turiya is the "final" stage. The process that

will remove subsequent veils/identifications is Kundalini; the union of

Shiva and Shakti is one station of the road.

 

Jan

 

 

Harsha: I think Jan's explanation is practical and makes sense. In advaita

vedanta Turiya is arrived at following the analysis of other three states

(sleeping, dreaming, dreamless sleep). Nirvikalpa Samadhi is another name

for

Turiya. Sahaj Samadhi can be called Turiyatitta. These distinctions are only

from the perspective of the mind however. When the mind merges in the Heart

that

is the Self, it takes everything else with it. Turiya is Turiyatitta, when

the

full import of the non dual state is realized and all distinctions including

those of spiritual states vanish entirely. Note the following I wrote

earlier.

 

> Some say that Reality is Subjective, some say it is Objective and

> some say it is both Objective and Subjective and some say it is neither.

> Some say the Final State is that of Pure Existence, some say it is Only

Pure

> Non-Existence and some say It is beyond both Existence and

> Non-Existence. No matter, how clever the terminology and how subtle the

> expression of the experience of the Self, it misses the mark. It is

because

> the Self has

> no point of Reference in experience being *It Self* the very Foundation on

> which

> All experience appears to take place..

>

> Harsha

>

> Also note the following:

>

> Harsha : I just came across a simple but beautiful passage (from Atma

> Vidya...Sage of Arunachala). It states: "When you have not understood

> yourself, what is the point in understanding other things? When you have

> understood yourself, what else is there to understand?

 

 

//