leaving and all... and ahimsa

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark and all,

 

Some more thoughts on the universal topic of Ahimsa:

 

On Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:43:36 Mark Otter wrote:

>thank you. I consider this high praise and will seek to earn it more

>and more deeply as I travel on through life.

 

I'm sure you will.

>feels wonderful to just let

>nice words sink in and comfort me without requiring them to stir me up,

>either to rejection or inflation.

 

A difficult balance.

I have just recently learned that even though

most ppl want praise, and that a lot of what

they do are activities aimed at receiving

praise or recognition from others, many ppl,

when they do finally receive praise from

others, they can't take it in a balanced way.

Strangely enough, it seems, it takes a

balanced ego to accept praise.

 

You also mentioned something about learning

to accept being alone because of separate

views with ppl.

I talked with a friend the other day about

saying what one thinks and the issue of being

outspoken. My friend, who knows nothing of

Advaita or any other kind of spiritual tradition,

said that he personally always chose between

being frank and being alone, because very often,

being very honest meant ppl would abandon you.

The my friend mentioned that he didn't think

one should always be frank with others,

and say exactly what one means, as most often

it won't change anything anyway.

I was surprised hearing my friend say this,

as it reflected my own thoughts on this issue

to a great degree.

>From my own experience with the ego and individual personality, it is very

resistant

to change, especially change asked from

external sources, i.e. others.

>Nonetheless, to move into greater apparent separation by

>having conflict with people is certainly uncomfortable, and I tend to

>want to go rushing back and take on all the responsibility for conflicts

>to bring them to an end, and later (some other part oif my personality?)

>I resent having done that if it was not fair. I can get REALLY angry

>over this one.

 

) I really know what you mean there.

I would rather keep others happy and apologize

too,

but afterwards, I always resent having to do that, and that creates even more

resentment...

>I assume

>that I will have to accept the blame for situations where some of the

>blame may lie elsewhere, and get resentful of that long before anyone

>has a chance to either shoulder their fair share of the responsibility

>or not. Ever have your apology rudely refused before you even try to

>give it?

 

No, fortunately, I haven't been in that

frustrating situation perhaps yet .

But I do recognize all the other stuff you mention there.

I have found japa to be one of the things

overcoming such resentment that appears.

I know many Buddhist traditions use what is called a Metta Bhavana (Loving

Kindness)

meditation to overcome

resentment and I do understand why for some,

this is the first kind of meditation that is

taught beginners.

>I react even more strongly to

>situations where I really was the primary offender. So when I really feel I

should take the blame and apologize,

>there is sometimes a misplaced anger about the "misjustice". I think

>that's inflated ego that thinks it never makes a mistake, so mistakes

>are sacriledge (did I spell that right? prolly not...)

 

 

I know, I hate being primary offender myself.

That means you were wrong and hurt someone else

and as you say, it does sting more

because you can't blame anyone else.

Well, I guess sometimes we all need to be

primary offender to look at ourselves.

>Yes, and the aches and pains can appear completely unrelated and really

>puzzle us.

 

Yeah, it can take a life time to figure them out, what they are caused by etc.

You mentioned in your last mail something about

doing holotropic breathwork to dissolve blocks

in the body. Would you mind explaining what

holotropic breathwork means ?

I have heard the term many times but never

really understood what it is.

>To be harmless, we

>must also be defenseless. Yes.

 

And to be defenseless we must be egoless or

rather, be able to know and see the ego for what

it is. Difficult enough, I keep feeling most of

us need a kick in the pants from spiritual or some other kind of practice to be

able to

even want to start opening up to ahimsa and

defenselessness.

>Yes, there is a balance between the environment being dangerous enough

>to push the buttons and safe enough to contain the consequences.

 

I think I mentioned something about that to

Gill (on this list) some time ago,

that one place to start is with friends and

family, ppl you do feel safe with and also

these are ppl bound to push some buttons,

by way of their social proximity.

Should at least increase your diplomatic skills.

 

Isn't that one of the most important things for

negotiators and diplomats btw;

To not be emotionally involved in the conflict

and view both parties with equal sympathy ?

Of course, this is hard to do when you yourself

is one of the involved parts.

>yes, but as I do it, I realize it's safe, and the fear dissipates and

>then it becomes a game. What shall I let go of today, and how much more

>relaxed can I get?

 

:) That is a cool attitude.

Relaxed and becoming like a reed in the wind,

that must be the goal.

 

You also asked who the mumble cat is.

The mumble cat is my parents' Brown Burmese

cat. Like all cats and in particular,

thoroughbred cats, she has a distinct

personality (and ego ?).

She enjoys sitting in the window at my parents'

house and then at times, if the house is

quiet, seems to relax a great deal and starts

making these mumbling noises to herself.

It's not the yapping sound some cats make when

seeing birds outside, and it's not purring,

this is some kind of sighing noise.

I have a theory about it and that is

that she is trying to copy the sound of

ppl talking quietly in the house, as she

often does this when ppl are sitting down,

chatting in the background. I believe she

takes our speech to be some kind of "I'm

ok and relaxed" signal, like purring is among

cats, and that she wants to copy this sound.

When in Rome and all that.

Anyway, that's my cat behavior theory.

I've never heard anyone else say this about

their cat, so my theory is far from supported

by evidence.

 

Love,

 

Amanda.

 

 

 

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/14/00 12:10:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mark.otter writes:

 

<< putting our hand over our mouth is related to this? I suspect that

whenever we hear about our ancestors being concerned about spirits

entering or leaving our bodies, there is some useful (potentially

abuseful as well?) technique of moving energies about. (any one want do

dialogue about these?) I've experienced and witnessed great releases

from holotropic breathwork but haven't done rebirthing or other

techniques. I've signed up for the holotropic training and can hardly

contain myself waiting for it to start. (why would I want to be

contained, anyway? hmmm...) What sorts of experiences have people had

that can be useful here?

 

Love, Mark

>>

 

Seeing this reference to Holotrophic breathwork reminded me of the one

experience l had with it -- it was at a week long retreat in Vermont in 1990.

The Grofs did it in combination with Jack Kornfield -- the first time they

attempted to combine the breathwork with a buddhist approach. As you say,

Mark, l saw some powerful things being released during the breathwork

sessions. Some of the mandalas done afterwords were really something,

testifying to profound experiences.

l especially remember a

small and otherwise mild woman who, during each sesion, became filled with

anger. lt took 2 large men to physically contain her. During my first session

l released alot of grief that Stan G thought was related to pain from the

birth experience, due to some of the things that l was feeling physically. l

can appreciate your desire to do more work with this. l might have done so

myself had my k experience not intervened, which cut short all other

spiritual work l was doing then. Unfortunately, l lost contact with people l

knew who were pursuing this and never found out how this turned out for them.

 

love,

jerry