Guest guest Posted April 18, 2000 Report Share Posted April 18, 2000 On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 12:29:33 Mark W. Otter wrote: >I'm surprised. Most folks have had others storm off (stalk out) and >never gotten back to finish the business. Maybe because I'm usually the one who leaves in a huff. >I think many review these >incidents when they approach death, and are able to release them. But >what happens if you die suddenly? That is a thought which scares me as well.. >It seems to me that I can let go of my side of the thing >even without validation from the other and if I can't actually find the >other person and reconnect, I'm willing to leave it there and wish for >the best I know what you mean. Spiritual traditions often advice ppl to look on life as if from the grave to be able to discern the important from the unimportant things. I have personally found this to be a good advice. >I don't mean to belabor this thread I don't think we are belaboring anything, there hasn't been a high volume of posts here lately. >reminding us of the spirit and >suggesting we explore our identity directly. My expression of these >ego-based questions is preparation for that, letting go of the heavy >baggage we've accumulated on our journey, and letting go of the idea of >journey. I think we can do both things, both intense self enquiry and trying to release issues of the ego on a more practical level. Self enquiry I suspect takes time before it has reached its final destination and in the mean time, letting go of other issues and trying to handle conflicts in a constructive way can as I see it only be positive for the overall process. Thanks for explaining what Holotropic breathing means. By "sitting", do you mean zazen, meditational sitting ? Do you do this at the same time as doing the breathing, or do you sit afterwards ? >The best is the circle at the end, where the participants >come together to share the work. The folks I have done this with create >a very loving space and I have come to feel part of a family. Wow, that must require a lot of trust on the participants and members of the group. >crucifiction (notice how "fiction" is part of that word...) >I can spot my own defenses much of the time (not all of the time, >so I'm still working on it), but am I spotting them with my ego, or >attention, or awareness? Oh, I don't know... perhaps a little of both, if ego is included in the mind... or perhaps with the part of the mind not included in the ego if all you do is register resistance. >For those not >ready to do the meditation work, the big defenses can still be seen if >one is willing to look. I think so too, but it perhaps requires more honest and will to change most ppl do not possess. At least, the incentive to change must be there. >I think ego can often refer to that which is >still useful after reunion, but defenses >become ridiculous. That's a thought. I also think parts of the personality will be there, but the as you say, the emotional defenses will not be useful any longer. That sounds like a very peaceful state indeed. Thanks again for writing, Mark. Love, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2000 Report Share Posted April 18, 2000 mumble cat wrote: > > > Thanks for explaining what Holotropic > breathing means. > By "sitting", do you mean zazen, meditational > sitting ? > Do you do this at the same time as doing the > breathing, or do you sit afterwards ? No, although I sometimes add some meditational component (or sometimes yoga) if not much is happening. Sitting means being there for a partner who is breathing . So, we partner up and each sits for the other while he or she breathes. There are 2 sessions, each about 3 hours long, with a meal break in between and after the second during which the breather also draws a mandala to integrate the material. The goal in sitting is to be there as a container, and witness to the work the breather does. Some breathers want help with tissues, water, perhaps an interaction with the sitter or facilitators (a hug or body work)... the sitter also goes with the breather when they need to go to the bathroom, just for safety sake. I find myself getting very compassionate while sitting. As a sitter, watching people go into powerful states, I find myself caring deeply for strangers, and I often sit there beaming my love and energy to them to help fuel their journeys (maybe that's just my fantasy, but it can feel quite real and I can feel the opportunity arise now and then, and then disappear as the process moves on.) I think the room itself is full of energy and the energy moves where it's needed. > > > >The best is the circle at the end, where the participants > >come together to share the work. The folks I have done this with > create > >a very loving space and I have come to feel part of a family. > > Wow, that must require a lot of trust on the > participants and members of the group. I think the process breaks barriers and facilitates that trust. Also, there is no particular order; people share when they want to, and there are regulars who are eager to share, so they show the way. It is a very close community. Many express the observation that we are family, and the interactions are more basic and open and honest than many we find in daily life. I usually take that as an opportunity to invite the people to selectively teach that to the others in their lives, because how we relate to each other in the greater world is a consensus agreement about how we want to relate, and it can be pushed either towards loving kindness or towards defensive withdrawal. Obviously, those who practice the defensive posture are slower to loosen up, but they can thaw too, and desire on some level the opportunity to do so. Here is a poem I wrote awhile ago about this: Glaciers I have seen the heart of glaciers. Cold, ponderous, inexorable; And with the right glasses, seen to ebb and flow, Tide-like, yearning to be close to the moon, Wishing to be free to play with dolphins, To rise in plumes of rainbow mist, To wet parched lips, In short to love. I, too, wish to be more fluid, More quickly in my natural state, More responsive to the playful ways of water, Lighter and more full of light, More able to meet your needs, Especially your need to melt. > > >I think ego can often refer to that which is > >still useful after reunion, but defenses >become ridiculous. > > That's a thought. > I also think parts of the personality will > be there, but the as you say, the emotional > defenses will not be useful any longer. > That sounds like a very peaceful state > indeed. It does, doesn't it? Sometimes I glimpse it, but the times in between are long and hard. I think just relaxing is the key. > > > Thanks again for writing, Mark. Thank you! Love, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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