struggling/jerry/tg-long

[Guest guest]

Jerry:

>Wow! Your response (which l'm going to get into alot more

> below) really took me by surprise. You really went at this! )

 

Why can't I just stand by and be happy seeing you okay right where you are,

and not doing what you obviously love to do? I can't. Maybe you have made

peace with it... I'm still working on it, so bear with me. The thought that

just occurred to me is that that would be kinda like making peace with a

crappy no-tree'd backyard tho, isn't it?

 

What made you finally *see* the bare yard as an opportunity for a zen garden?

Did you ask questions of yourself?

>Your observations about my aborted piano career raise all kinds of

questions that relate not only to me personally but also regarding the

nature of music itself, the meaning of various kinds of music, the

significance of the composers to whom l've

> vaguely referred to as "Masters", and other things as well. Just as you've

> surprised me, l suspect my response will surprise you, ha ha.

>Ah, you're a devil, TG ...you're forcing me to get into questions that

cannot be easily answered. l do have a different perspective on this than

you. (This is where

> those questions come in.) Hope you won't mind -- l'm trying to look at it

> openly -- certainly the process of questioning is worthwhile anyway.

 

I don't mind at all! I just told you how I saw it -- which didn't make it

the truth by all means. I'm glad you are taking the time to clarify.

 

j.> >You see, l was always in too much of a hurry to become an accomplished

> player.

>

tg> Don't you think that is how many of us are in a lot of the areas of our

> life? Even on my own spiritual search, once I realized what I was looking

> for (God), I became passionate with finding/learning about God (like you,

> with learning to play the piano) and obsessed about becoming enlightened (

> like you, with wanting to become a Master Adept or Master Pianist). The

joy

> of learning (with a passion) about my own God within, went hand-in-hand

with

> the obsession for enlightenment --'gotta get there', 'gotta get there!'

I

> thought the two were the same. Once I found God, I didn't know what the

> hell to do with my life. I came to my own standstill. I found God, but I

> wasn't enlightened. I was still trying to 'become'. I couldn't see the

> forest for the trees.

 

(J) Right on. l can really relate to this. l'm not sure l've found God (or

at least realized it), but l sure agree with this.

 

tg: That's okay, as I'm still looking at the tree branches, too, trying to

see if I'm even in a forest or not. :-)

 

 

(J) Yes ..... as we've said, there does appear to be a

> pattern here -- l was hurrying to be a yoga adept in the same way l'd

hurried

> to be a piano adept; focusing too much on the future, not enough on the

> eternal "now".

 

Let me interrupt with a thought for a sec. Was there a difference in

'becoming an adept'' and creating your zen garden? In a sense, the garden

was in the state of 'becoming' also. ok carry on...

>But l don't see myself patterning in quite the same way as you'

> ve described, and this is where those questions come in. l don't feel l

was

> trying to be like Beethoven, etc. l think of the great pianists of the

past:

> Was Rubinstein trying to be like Chopin? Was Serkin trying to be like

Mozart?

> Somewhat, perhaps ... but it goes far beyond that.

 

I agree, and thanks for clarifying.

((J) Who

> were these "masters" and why do l call them such? l refer to these

composers

> as masters because they wrote uniquely profound music that represents a

range

> and depth of expression that is universal and timeless.

>That's why the most

> brilliant musicians are content to dwell almost exclusively in a world that

> consists of music composed between roughly 1725 and 1900. And this is why,

> even tho this music was composed by Europeans (mostly German) long ago, it

> has been adopted as the highest form of musical expression in so many other

> cultures, including even most Asian countries. (US conservatories are

packed

> with Asian students.) Because the music itself expresses so much.

 

Thanks for the quicky music lesson -- see I didn't know this! I haven't

studied, nor played classical music( okay I do play l/2 of Moonlite Sonata!

LOL), so you are definitely the expert here. Does it takes a (special?)

person to enjoy this music... or is it an acquired taste? I do know that my

son Joshua (16) LOVES classical music, without growing up around it, and it

puts him in another world listening to it. I cannot even comprehend the

depth of his hearing. I just love observing him enjoying it!

>So, it's the music, not the composers, that is important.

 

Agreed. I apologize for emphasizing on the 'masters'.

>ln performing this music, l truly felt that l was expressing

> myself -- not ALL of myself, of course, but so much ..... You know,

> everyone who plays Beethoven's sonatas does it in his own way. We're not

even

> sure now Beethoven played them. There's so much room for individual

> expression.

 

I'm like a born-again piano player, and I'm just setting the world straight

these days! LOL But really, forgive me. It never occurred to me about

individual expression, but that makes absolute sense and I love that fact.

Thanks for hangin' in here with my newness to clarify.

>Alot of people loved my playing because it was so romantic, no

> matter who the composer was. (Some didn't like it for the same reason.)

 

What makes a piece/playing romantic, if you don't mind me asking? I have

never heard/felt the difference. Joshua does have some romantic classical

music, but from what little I've heard, I can't tell the difference -- what

is it I am to listen/feel for? I'll make my homework this week to listen to

them.

>Other pianists were technically superior but played coldly and no one

wanted to

> listen to them. The legendary Polish pianist, Paderewski, was an example.

> Most critics hated his technique, but he drove audiences absolutely wild.

His

> persona came through the music, regardless of the composer.

 

Now you've just given me a whole new way of looking at this music! So

technically superior but coldly.... would that mean 'without feeling'?

>l think we have to be careful in comparing

> the great composers as "masters" to the great spiritual masters. One

> difference l see is that the spiritual masters found ways of liberation

that

> they naturally taught to others, whereas the composers were artists rather

> than teachers. l find it hard to compare the two, altho both could be

called

> masters.

 

I see your point.

>When l spoke of most classical pianists not composing, what l meant was

that the music as a whole provides such a wide and profound range of

expression that they don't feel the need to do so.

 

I certainly understand this now after talking further with you. Thanks.

It makes me wonder if Leonard (for example) had played classical, would his

desire for expressing himself been fulfilled? He found after years of

playing others music, even with his own elaborate expressions, just didn't do

it for him any longer. So there must be a difference in the expressions

between the two types of music (?) (classical and all others).

 

>Now, does this mean l'm putting other kinds of music down? Well, l hope

not, because l've liked other kinds myself. They all have

> their place. Yet, as great as the classical repertoire is, it isn't for

> everyone. l can't say that it offers me everything that l want or need, and

l

> assume this is true for others as well.

>As you suggest, l believe everyone is

> capable of expressing an individually unique, creative musical idea.

 

And you opened my mind further to expressing your own individualism into what

has already been created. I can see now it has a most beautiful place also.

I do see your point, as Leonard (recreates?) some of the MOST beautiful

music in a style that blows people away. You should hear my ''How Great Thou

Art" he taught me (his style) -- it would blow the church doors away with the

uniqueness of it.

>This is David Darling's message that l talked about. Even though our gift,

skill and

> expression doesn't compare to Mozart's, that doesn't mean it lacks value,

> particularly to us.

 

I totally agree.

>ln this respect, l'm not distinguishing music from sound.

> We know the usage of sound in the mystical traditions and in healing.

> Honestly, after encountering it in various spiritual workshops, l wondered

> whether my orientation to music as a classical pianist hadn't been narrower

> than l'd realized.

 

I'm sure it enhanced it in more ways than you realize right now. When you

are ready to explore this more, would you also consider wondering whether

your orientation to music as a classical pianist hadn't been wider than you'd

realized?

> l wanted to explore this more, but then my k process and

> symptoms (so much energy in my head all the time) prevented that.

 

I certainly remember those days.

>Our dialogue here reminds me that l may still want to explore this if my k

ever

> permits.

> l don't know how much sense this makes or how much of it you agree with,

TG. As l said, there are some difficult questions here, questions involving

the relative merits and usages of various forms of musical expression --

questions l haven't heard discussed for a long time! l've only scratched

the surface.

 

It's really fasinating to me. I appreciate you taking the time

 

(J) The reason l can't get my butt back on

the

> piano is because it hurts my butt too much to sit on a piano stool! l've

> referred generally to the losses l've suffered from k -- the biggest is the

> chronic low back problem which makes it impossible for me to sit for very

> long and severely limits my activities. lt's primarily because of this that

l

> haven't played at all for over 3 yrs now. Before this l would play at least

a

> little.

 

Jerry, I have to tell you it is really killing me that you have allll this

experience with something that I adore and know you have a great love for it

to, and cannot use it. I can't help but feel this way, and wish there was

something I could say, something I could do, to make it not so.

 

I offer this story not to belittle your own situation, but maybe as a

possibility.

 

My hubby had severe lower back problems thru-out our whole marriage (and

prior). His back was so bad, at 40, the Chiropractor told him he had the

spine of an 85 yr old man. He would miss work weekly... sometimes a day or

two at a time... sometimes a week, and at times for several weeks. During

those times, he would walk very slowly, all humped over like an old man, he

was in such great pain.

 

Around 1991, I began observing his 'bad' days. They ALWAYS occurred on a

Monday. He'd do all sorts of laborous work during the weekend at times

around the house, and his back would be hurting by Sun. nite or wake up

hurting on Monday. Many times, he would do nothing back-breaking on the

weekend, yet sure enough on Monday, he'd still have to call in sick. He was

in horrible pain no matter if he relaxed or worked the weekends!

 

I told him of my observations, and suggested that he make his mind up on the

coming weekend, to take Monday off -- especially since he owned the company!

No one would care. :-) He said ''nooo that is just dumb! I have back

problems!" I didn't deny that, as I knew it was true... but would he try it

anyway. He said he couldn't. I said okay. Come Monday morning, he was out

again for a couple of days. He promised me then he would definitely do it

the next week. I think that's when he finally realized it occurred on a

Monday! LOL

 

I reminded him on the weekend to do whatever back-breaking stuff he wanted

(which he did), but to keep in mind he was going to call Monday morning to

tell them he was taking the day off. He did. They didn't mind. LOL He

had a fantastic Monday off, fishing, and went to work on Tuesday, feeling

great.

 

He began taking Monday's off every week he could - usually 3-4 a month. He

did not have a back problem for over two years, until he got real busy at

work and began going in every Monday again. Then he backed off Monday's, and

they never returned.

***************

 

That was a long story. And I don't mean to make light of your back problems,

especially since they are k-related, and I know they are causing you much

pain. But I believe in my heart and soul, that there is a very simple

solution for it. Most likely not work related, but something else we could

open our mind to. Even k pain is just blockages, as was Danny's pain.

 

If I'm buttin' in where I don't belong, please let me know -- no offense

taken.

 

 

(J) Sounds great! l'd love to hear him play sometime -- maybe someday, huh?

 

Definitely...

> (J) Well, ha ha, except for the part about

> wanting to be like the masters, l have to completely agree with you here

in

> every respect! )) l can only agree with all of these wonderful things

you'

> ve said and that l am an inspiration.

 

LOL!

>(Except that after reading this post

> you're probably ready to take it all back!) )))

 

No way.

>With the garden, l learned from seeing other gardens and doing some

reading, but the creative process was my own and the garden is certainly

unique.

 

I knew it! When you talked about it, it felt like pure Jerry.

 

((J) l do know this: after 8 yrs of struggle and pain, my k

> process has been moving rapidly in the last few months and finally feels

like

> it's approaching a climax -- and l mean it could happen today or tomorrow,

> that's how rapidly it's moving. l have NO expectations about this, except

> that things are changing, and l feel more hopeful now about my path than at

> any time in the past 8 years.

Wonderful! I have great faith in you.

 

(J) Hope you don't mind, but let's defer these for now,

> ok?

 

a-ok.

 

<(J) Welllllll ......... l don't know ... l'

> ll just say this. Whatever my flaws may have been, and l'm sure there have

> been many, l think most who know me would characterize me as the most

> individualistic person they know. One can not be a huge romantic as l've

> always been and try to be anyone but himself. Out of the 8 years l studied

> piano, l was only with a teacher about 3 of those years -- l drove teachers

> crazy and largely taught myself. All kinds of spiritual teachers tried to

> initiate me, etc but l probably never would have gone with one except that

> with k, l felt l needed help. But guess what? l still wound up on my own,

> being my own teacher, as always. l've never wanted to be anything other

than

> my own master -- the hero of my own life. How well l'll succeed remains to

be

> seen, but at the end of the day l'll have one comfort: l've followed my

heart

> and my own inner guidance.

 

Great! I appreciate you clarifying all of this. No one could have made that

garden as you did, put the love, time, and care into it, and not already be a

master! You cannot help but succeed in whatever you do. I bet you were

even an honest

lawyer. :-)

>As l said at the beginning, TG, altho we have differing

perspectives about some of

> this, you've forced me to look at very difficult and provocative questions,

> and l'm by no means finished with this process, so who knows?

 

If my perspective(s) were incorrect, the questions are no longer

questionable. You've clarified much for me, helping me to understand many

things in a different way.

>This could

> actually wind up being a more important conversation than l realize now.

l'm

> not saying this to be patronizing at all, believe me! Thank you for that.

 

I can't imagine you being patronizing.

Ok, I'm trying to imagine.

Nope. No can do.

 

Till next time,

Much Love,

xxxtg