Guest guest Posted April 27, 2000 Report Share Posted April 27, 2000 Hi everyone. Antoine wrote: > Hello Colette > > All this is only an excuse so I can say, It's nice to read again from > you. > > Love > > Antoine Thankyou my dear friend. It is also lovely to feel your energy again. I was just reading the Osho Transformation card, from the Osho Zen Deck. I bought the new Osho Transformation Tarot but find the other Zen deck better. I wonder which deck you like best? > >From the card "XI FORCE" in "Meditation on the Tarot", Anonymous > > "Now, there are several modes of sleeping. There is sleep and Sleep. You > can believe, or not believe, in the testimony of the Cabbala, which > describe what is said to happen during the sleep of the righteous, > during sleep of the ordinary people, and during the sleep of the > sinners. (...) However there is no one who does not know from sure > experience what arises during sleep at night, in diverse states not only > of health but also of the soul. the overwhelming cares of one day can be > changed during sleep into things of secondary importance and can even > appear insignificant, whilst insignificant things of the day before, > which skated almost imperceptibly across the screen of your memory > before sleep, can acquire in dream a singular importance which was not > at all surmised the preceding day. How many different ways of awakening! > How moods, states of mind, desires, general states of the soul, differ > when you awake, for example, after Christmas night or Easter night, or > some night in November or February... If the ways of awakening are as > different as black and white, it is because there are as many different > kinds of _sleep_. > > Just as there are several modes of sleeping, so there are several modes > of dying. It is again the Cabbala which makes mention of this and which > describe a whole scale of ways of dying, the summit of which would be > death due to the kiss of the Eternal One. According to the Cabbala, > conscious or unconscious _ecstasy_ would therefore be the most sublime > cause of death. > > Must an ecstatic rapture necessarily be sudden or can it be slow and > gradual as well? Consider the process of death where it is not the body > which refuses to serve the soul, but rather where it is the soul itself > which gradually quits the body - could this not be the visible > manifestation of invisible ecstasy, of the increasing attraction of the > divine working in the very depths of the soul? Would not increasing > _nostalgia_ suffice to explain the gradual departure of "vital élan" > that is recorded in the case of general decline resulting in death? > > Be that as it may, this is not what the Cabbala teaches, but also > contemporary Christian Hermeticism. The Hermetic teaching is as follows: > > During the period of preparation for so-called "natural death" - i.e. > caused neither by unserviceability of the organism, nor by violent > interference from outside, nor poisoning - a well-defined process takes > place in the "vital body" (the "etheric body", or _nephesch_ according > to the Cabbala). there the vital forces concentrate little by little in > the region of the eight-petalled lotus, which is the crown centre. To > the extent that this concentration in the crown region of the head (in > fact, even above the head, if one understands by "head" the physical > brain) takes place, vital activity diminishes-ate first the lower region > of the organism (...). At the moment when the concentration of vitality > in complete, the heart and also the circulatory system cease their > activity-this is the moment of death. > > Now, the process here correspond to the ecstasy to which one aspires in > the practice of yoga. For the state of _samadhi_, or yogic ecstasy, is > realized, in terms of esoteric physio-psychurgy, by the concentration of > energy - arising from the lower region of the body - in the crown > region, in the region of the "thousand petalled lotus" (sahasrara). > (...) Once the energy is concentrated in the crown region the body is > reduced to a state of stupor, and the consciousness of the self departs > and is united with the consciousness of the transcendent Self - which is > the stare of _samadhi_ or ecstasy. _Samadhi_ or yogic ecstasy is a > temporary or artificial death." This is a beautiful sharing. Stupor eh? Sounds like fun! :-) Thankyou Antoine. .." > Maybe one could say that the strength in one to live could be measured > to what he/she leaves behind in dying? But as we all know there is a > _place_ where energy or strength stop to have any meaning... > > Antoine Now goung back a little ! Col: >Ok wow. I honestly don't know if there can be an after. How can a lost ego find its Self even >in psychotherapy? Amanda: But wasn't that what you said at first ? That there is first "transcendence" and then "manifestation", during which time one resolves childhood and abuse issues ? Just wondering... *Hi Amanda. I am saying that one can completely transcend everything, body & mind, & there is no one there. Just Existence it Self. Seer (no persons). Eye. I am also saying that this impersonal Being may come back into personal manifestation using the former personality. Then this Being gets the fun of experience again through cleaning up the subtler issues still left for playing in (maybe as alternation of pain & pleasure). Identification as nothing & something may alternate :-) Sounds funny doesn't it? In this way God continues His play, & we continue to marry to Him. Two still playing as One. Or One still playing as two. I am saying there are stages & gradations in the whole divine process. I am also now going to say that it can also be dangerous to not accept the Gift when It Is found. (In other words keep seeking your Self after sunyata). People in 5th state of consciousness (after sunyata) it is said ... can still keep playing that game (of ignorance) & keep themselves in 5th state forever. There is a time for laughter & a time for joy. Will we allow ourselves the Gift, or keep overidentifying with the available personality which says we are abandoned & separate? I am speaking to 5th state dynamics here :-) I think there are oodles of awakened Beings here & on this planet. But that doesn't mean they have integrated the personality at all. Many face the delicate task of actualising the Gift. When it is offered, may we all be brave enough to Accept. That is what I am saying. Thanks for your welcome, Love, Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2000 Report Share Posted April 28, 2000 Hi Colette, Jumping in here... At 12:01 PM 4/28/00 +1000, Colette wrote: >*Hi Amanda. I am saying that one can completely transcend everything, body & mind, & there is no one there. Just Existence it Self. Seer (no persons). Eye. > >I am also saying that this impersonal Being may come back into personal manifestation using the former personality. Then this Being gets the fun of experience again through cleaning up the subtler issues still left for playing in (maybe as alternation of pain & pleasure). Identification as nothing & something may alternate :-) Sounds funny doesn't it? In this way God continues His play, & we continue to marry to Him. Two still playing as One. Or One still playing as two. I am saying there are stages & gradations in the whole divine process. Greg: Quick question for you, Colette. If the transcendence is really complete and there is really no one there, then how can identification re-appear? And let's say for a moment that identification did arise. What would make it the *same* person or the *same* identification as before? If identification arises, how do you know it is not *another* person? If it is the same person who somehow re-appears, then there had to be something very subtle persisting that hadn't disappeared. Even in reincarnation theory - when Sara reincarnates as Elizabeth, they are not said to be the same person. Complete transcendence must always be irreversible. This is not to say that psychological work movement cannot happen at any time. This is one of the main points that started this thread - that psychological work is valuable whenever it is needed. To adopt a certain way of speaking, let's say that Sara completely transcends. The inherent identity is gone. Sara won't think in terms of bodies or personalities any more. Other people in her life might see a difference (might not), but they would think in terms of bodies, identity, personality. If Sara goes to a psychologist and starts to become a nicer person and experiences more comfortable thoughts and feelings, it is not *her* personality change, because there no Sara left. Rather, it is a change in the overall landscape, just like the change in season from winter to spring. Actually, it is *always* like Sara's case, for everyone - landscape. But it is just seen as something personal. Love, --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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