Eastern Teachings/Gurus

May 6, 2000

In a message dated 5/5/00 9:22:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

hluthar writes:

<<

The term Guru refers to the one who removes darkness. But many so called

"gurus",

often self proclaimed, are themselves wrestling with serious psychological

problems, are emotionally immature, and end up causing harm to their

students. How can indulging in mental/emotional games be a sign of spiritual

wisdom and maturity? Many spiritual communities have been traumatized by the

unethical and abusive behavior of their spiritual leaders. We often see

these stories in newspapers and journals that cover religion and

spirituality. This goes on all over the world including India, my native

country. What should one do? One should use reason and develop common sense.

One should engage in Satsangh (Fellowship with other seekers), spiritual

practices and prayers and keep the goal of Self Realization always in mind.

One should have confidence in the Real Guru Within. A genuine spiritual

personality is an ordinary person and has no need to play games or tricks.

Such a person, due to having Direct Knowledge of the Self, has a stable

outlook and is free from delusion. A Real Guru is gentle. He is like an ice

cube in a drink of water. She gradually cools your consciousness and then

disappears without a trace.

Harsha

>>

Thanx Harsha! Couldn't have said it better myself. And if we weigh these

words of wisdom against the exploits of most known teachers of recent years,

we find that they don't measure up to the standard you've articulated here

but rather fit your description of seriously psychologically flawed beings,

doing harm to their students. l don't mean to flaunt this, l only regret that

more people don't recognize it, altho of course, everything according to its

own time. Your advice, as always, is sound.

jerry

May 6, 2000

Hello Everyone

I will be sending a voice message to the lists using the new technology in

the next few minutes.

Love

Harsha

May 6, 2000

> hluthar writes:

>

> <<

> The term Guru refers to the one who removes darkness. But many so called

> "gurus",

> often self proclaimed, are themselves wrestling with serious psychological

> problems, are emotionally immature, and end up causing harm to their

> students. How can indulging in mental/emotional games be a sign of spiritual

> wisdom and maturity? Many spiritual communities have been traumatized by the

> unethical and abusive behavior of their spiritual leaders.

>

> Jerry:

> Thanx Harsha! Couldn't have said it better myself. And if we weigh these

> words of wisdom against the exploits of most known teachers of recent years,

> we find that they don't measure up to the standard you've articulated here

> but rather fit your description of seriously psychologically flawed beings,

> doing harm to their students. l don't mean to flaunt this, l only regret that

> more people don't recognize it, altho of course, everything according to its

> own time. Your advice, as always, is sound.

> jerry

Hello. I feel this relates to what I was saying before. One can awaken to their

higher Self dynamically. There are techniques around that are not dependent on

you healing all your ego issues, before you transcend body & mind. I agree that

no one should give satsangh or whatever, until they have balanced through

actualising the Being.

Col

May 7, 2000

Hi Col:

Yes, it is possible to transcend the body and mind before healing all

ego issues and at that point the body/mind can live through the

karmas while the self stays in the self. However, many of the gurus

and spiritual teachers who do so much damage to students are people

who have been able to transcend the body and mind before taking care

of the ego. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a code of

behavior or ethics attached to being able to work with kundalini

energy and without at least an awareness of one's 'issues' and enough

humility to flow with grace it is the ego that manifests more strongly

than the heart. Many of my family members and non-yoga type friends

have all commented at one time or the other on how arrogant and

self-serving many people who meditate, do yoga or work with the

transcendent disciplines behave. I can not disagree with their

observations.

Linda

>Hello. I feel this relates to what I was saying before. One can

awaken >to their higher Self dynamically. There are techniques around

that are >not dependent on you healing all your ego issues, before you

transcend >body & mind. I agree that no one should give satsangh or

whatever, until >they have balanced through actualising the Being.Col

// All paths go

somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions,

and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It

is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self.

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between digest and normal mode.

May 7, 2000

Hello Harsha:

How nice to hear the voice of our Sat Sangh leader and the hear this

voice chanting to Siva....good way to start the morning.

Namaste,

Linda

May 7, 2000

Hello Harsha:

You give a good description of what one should see in a true spiritual

teacher. Often when one speaks to people like myself who have been

through experiences with posers you will often hear of students

having headaches, fear, guilt, confusion after being around the

teacher. A person who is good at presenting him/herself as a

spiritual teacher will usually convince you that it is something

inside of you that is causing these reactions, something that needs

to be worked on, to be corrected. Of course, that is in a sense true

because there is something that needs to be corrected...the

relationship with this person has to end :-).

Linda

>A genuine spiritual>personality is an ordinary person and has >no

need to play games or tricks.>Such a person, due to having Direct

>Knowledge of the Self, has a stable>outlook and is free from

delusion. A Real >Guru is gentle. He is like an ice>cube in a drink

of water. She gradually >cools your consciousness and then>disappears

without a trace.Harsha