When you're traveling, ask a traveler for advice, not so...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/7/00 12:38:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

BonGiovanni writes:

 

<< :>A Real Guru is gentle. He is

:> like an ice

:> cube in a drink of water. She gradually cools your

:> consciousness and then

:> disappears without a trace.

 

That is lovely, and apt, and perhaps in the afterglow, a real guru is seen

as just that gentle, gentle, perhaps as gentle as a mother now holding a

newborn grandson. For those, however, who are closer to term than a

grandmother, it may be that a real guru, in the ordinary sense, may instead

seem as "gentle" as childbirth: frightening, yet welcome, fierce yet noble,

demanding, yet generous, screaming yet more alive than any sigh, painful yet

with the promise of a fuller life, unendurable, ever demanding, ever

requiring one more push-- yet be natural and thorough in delivery as that

ice cube, now melted in the glass of water at the bedside. >>

 

Yes, there have been gurus like this. Unfortunately, however, we have

seen that the idea of the "real guru" as frightening, fierce yet noble,

demanding, screaming yet alive and unendurable is all too often used as a

pretext for psychologically flawed teachers to abuse their students. Based on

recent cases we know of (particularly in the west), a teacher who behaves

like this may be the real deal, but the odds are not in your favor. Do you

have anyone specific in mind? Just wondering.

jerry

[Guest guest]

Hi Jerry,

The teacher that I had often behaved in a demanding and frightening

manner....in the beginning he patterned himself after Yogi Bhajan and

would often say that it was all for effect that he was not really

angry. He would tell stories about Iyengar and how he threw some

student across a room once which resulted in permanent neck damage

and another teacher who would have his students wear dog collars. We

were constantly told that he was gentle compared to others and how in

previous days we would have had to sit in the hot sun for weeks to

even be allowed into an ashram. I believe that at one time this man

did act like that for effect and the behavior was an attention getter

which often would shock one into an awareness. However, as time went

on power began to get to him and it was no longer an act...he became

a classic example of someone who could manipulate energy and siddhis

but who had not gotten rid of his own 'stuff'. Teachers like this

abound but so does grace and when the time is right the inner Guru

seems to remove one from the wrath and the journey continues.

Recovery is a difficult process and this man's entire 'inner circle'

is now gone and we all seem to be doing fine only 2 of us have had

long term effects...with me it is financial as he cost me greatly and

a friend who gained over 100 pounds in the months that followed her

swan song. One of the challenges in a situation like this is how

much to say afterwards as this person continues to ply his trade.

Many are afraid of his 'power' and hesitate to talk about him at all,

some just want to get on with life and not take the chance of

incurring karma or keeping any connection formed. As his senior

teacher I still hear about this man and his actions does one do as

the Dalai Lama suggests and speak out against a wrongful teacher or

leave it alone? Is it someone's karma to have to deal with him or is

it right to try and protect someone? It is ironic that we look for

someone to guide us along the 'razor' edged path and find in the end

that the guide was the razor.

Linda

>Yes, there have been gurus like this. >Unfortunately, however, we

have >seen that the idea of the "real guru" as >frightening, fierce

yet noble, >demanding, screaming yet alive and >unendurable is all

too often used as a >pretext for psychologically flawed >teachers to

abuse their students. Based >on >recent cases we know of

(particularly in >the west), a teacher who behaves >like this may be

the real deal, but the >odds are not in your favor. Do you >have

anyone specific in mind? Just >wondering.

jerry

// All paths go

somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions,

and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It

is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/10/00 4:00:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

jyotish writes:

 

<<

The teacher that I had often behaved in a demanding and frightening

manner....in the beginning he patterned himself after Yogi Bhajan and would

often say that it was all for effect that he was not really angry. He would

tell stories about Iyengar and how he threw some student across a room once

which resulted in permanent neck damage and another teacher who would have

his students wear dog collars. We were constantly told that he was gentle

compared to others and how in previous days we would have had to sit in the

hot sun for weeks to even be allowed into an ashram. I believe that at one

time this man did act like that for effect and the behavior was an attention

getter which often would shock one into an awareness. However, as time went

on power began to get to him and it was no longer an act...he became a

classic example of someone who could manipulate energy and siddhis but who

had not gotten rid of his own 'stuff'. Teachers like this abound but so does

grace and when the time is right the inner Guru seems to remove one from the

wrath and the journey continues.

 

Recovery is a difficult process and this man's entire 'inner circle' is now

gone and we all seem to be doing fine only 2 of us have had long term

effects...with me it is financial as he cost me greatly and a friend who

gained over 100 pounds in the months that followed her swan song. One of the

challenges in a situation like this is how much to say afterwards as this

person continues to ply his trade. Many are afraid of his 'power' and

hesitate to talk about him at all, some just want to get on with life and not

take the chance of incurring karma or keeping any connection formed. As his

senior teacher I still hear about this man and his actions does one do as the

Dalai Lama suggests and speak out against a wrongful teacher or leave it

alone? Is it someone's karma to have to deal with him or is it right to try

and protect someone? It is ironic that we look for someone to guide us along

the 'razor' edged path and find in the end that the guide was the razor.

 

Linda

>>

 

Hi Linda,

Thank you for sharing this. Looking at what you've related about this

teacher's behavior, all of these things he said and did appear to be red

flags to me, but l know that's so much easier for me to say now from my

vantage point than for those who were experiencing it at the time. He does

sound like a classically screwed up teacher, and Yogi Bhajan is a good

starting point to get that way. l'm glad to hear that you were able to

extricate yourself and have recovered well except for financial losses.

 

lt's also

part of the classic pattern for bullying teachers to make students believe

that terrible things will happen to them if they not only leave but

particularly if they talk. ln actuality these threats are virtually never

carried out in any way, especially if several students are leaving and the

teacher is on the ropes -- he has other things to worry about. But it's

understandable that former students feel fearful anyway. As you say, one does

feel the need to move on.

l

believe in speaking out against a false teacher who is harming students,

which l feel is consistent with trying to live in accordance with

facilitating justice and helping others. But this is a personal decision that

each person must make, consulting one's inner guidance. There are many ways

to put the word out anonymously, if you don't want to go public. l'd be happy

to discuss this aspect more with you off the list, if you'd like. Thank you

once again and l hope all continues to go well for you.

 

love,

jerry