Guest guest Posted May 11, 2000 Report Share Posted May 11, 2000 On 5/11/00 at 5:45 PM Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: [...] ¤Miguel, in ancient days, there was a sect of Sadhus in India. People said ¤they were totally crazy because their guru advocated suicide for everyone. ¤Their philosophy was that the world did not really exist, was a miserable ¤illusion, and the only way out was to climb the big local mountain and jump ¤off it, head first. The guru of the sect was widely respected. That would be the definition of a "phoney" guru - one who hasn't practiced what he is teaching. The real reason that such a guru has disciples could be that no one believes his teaching but wants to learn his siddhis - nothing will attract "ego" as much as the display of siddhis ¤ ¤One day, the king called the guru in and said, "I don't like your philosophy ¤at all. It is very stupid. Two people last week jumped off the cliff. Some ¤say they were drunk and others say they jumped off after visiting your ¤Ashram and hearing your lecture. This Sunday, I propose that your group ¤gather on the top of the local mountain. I will honor you and your group ¤there. After that I will have my people push all of you off the cliff. You ¤will be happy to be free of this worldly illusion and I will be happy to be ¤free of you." A most generous offer by the king. But when thinking the world is an illusion, the king and his words surely must be be illusion too, so would the guru ignore? Not so, if being a phoney... ¤The guru said, "I cannot accept your proposal my beloved and wise King. Our ¤philosophy is sacred and the teaching must be maintained. If me and my group ¤go off the cliff as you propose, who will be left to give this sublime and ¤noble truth to others? Our ancient and beautiful tradition must remain ¤unbroken." Oh what a devious guru - he just forgot that he himself, being part of the illusory world, by definition is an illusion too. So nothing to teach, nothing to maintain and his very plea is illusion. ¤The king said, "Sublime teachings my foot. This is all a bunch of B.S. Why ¤is your noble teaching not an illusion along with everything else. You are ¤all total idiots! Please be on top of the cliff Sunday morning and I can pay ¤my respects to you and your group in a formal sort of way." ¤ ¤Well, the guru and his followers ran away and never showed up on Sunday on ¤top of the local mountain. They applied for visas in foreign lands based on ¤religious persecution. Those visas were granted and they continued to spread ¤their noble and sublime teachings in other lands. ¤ ¤>From Harsha's Book of Enlightenment - 1001 stories. ¤ ¤a - We guarantee your Enlightenment and offer extended ¤warranties on it as well. ¤ ¤// A delightful story - illusion for a teaching will have illusion as its fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2000 Report Share Posted May 11, 2000 ----Original Message----- andrew macnab [a.macnab] Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: <snip> > in ancient days, there was a sect of Sadhus in India. People said > they were totally crazy because their guru advocated suicide for everyone. > Their philosophy was that the world did not really exist, was a miserable > illusion, and the only way out was to climb the big local mountain and jump > off it, head first. The guru of the sect was widely respected. It seems to me that their fatal flaw was not in holding that all is illusion (nor would maintaining the reality of the world be a flaw) but in the illusion that all is inescapably miserable, and in confusing death of self with physical death, and in separating physical life from life of Self. andrew Hi Andrew. Thanks for your response. In the context of the story, I am reminded of a beautiful truth or insight often indicated metaphorically. The top of the mountain, the highest height, symbolically can refer to the spiritual/psychic height of Sahasarara Chakra. When Kundalini Shakti moves up, its last resting place is the "top of the mountain." From there, if one is totally and utterly indifferent to the highest height, there can be a "jump of the cliff" so to speak. Grace allows for this jump into the arms of Divine Beloved. It requires total faith and trust in the Guru/God/Self/Heart/ or call it what you will for the ultimate surrender of the mind itself. It is with that "fall" in to the deepest abyss of emptiness that One Knows the Highest Height and the Deepest Depth are not different. The Fullest Fullness and the Emptiest Emptiness are Totally Identical. It is easy to see why mystics become mad, break with traditions, and are willing to sing their songs even when they are despised. With the cup always to the lips brimming with divine intoxication, it is easy to see why mystics become poets. The Same Sameness Everywhere. Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2000 Report Share Posted May 12, 2000 On 5/11/00 at 5:45 PM Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: [...] ¤Miguel, in ancient days, there was a sect of Sadhus in India. People said ¤they were totally crazy because their guru advocated suicide for everyone. ¤Their philosophy was that the world did not really exist, was a miserable ¤illusion, and the only way out was to climb the big local mountain and jump ¤off it, head first. The guru of the sect was widely respected. That would be the definition of a "phoney" guru - one who hasn't practiced what he is teaching. The real reason that such a guru has disciples could be that no one believes in his teaching but wants to learn his siddhis - nothing will attract "ego" as much as the display of siddhis ¤ ¤One day, the king called the guru in and said, "I don't like your philosophy ¤at all. It is very stupid. Two people last week jumped off the cliff. Some ¤say they were drunk and others say they jumped off after visiting your ¤Ashram and hearing your lecture. This Sunday, I propose that your group ¤gather on the top of the local mountain. I will honor you and your group ¤there. After that I will have my people push all of you off the cliff. You ¤will be happy to be free of this worldly illusion and I will be happy to be ¤free of you." A most generous offer by the king. But when thinking the world is an illusion, the king and his words surely must be be illusion too, so would the guru ignore? Not so, if being a phoney... ¤The guru said, "I cannot accept your proposal my beloved and wise King. Our ¤philosophy is sacred and the teaching must be maintained. If me and my group ¤go off the cliff as you propose, who will be left to give this sublime and ¤noble truth to others? Our ancient and beautiful tradition must remain ¤unbroken." Oh what a devious guru - he just forgot that he himself, being part of the illusory world, by definition is an illusion too. So nothing to teach, nothing to maintain and his very plea is illusion. ¤The king said, "Sublime teachings my foot. This is all a bunch of B.S. Why ¤is your noble teaching not an illusion along with everything else. You are ¤all total idiots! Please be on top of the cliff Sunday morning and I can pay ¤my respects to you and your group in a formal sort of way." ¤ ¤Well, the guru and his followers ran away and never showed up on Sunday on ¤top of the local mountain. They applied for visas in foreign lands based on ¤religious persecution. Those visas were granted and they continued to spread ¤their noble and sublime teachings in other lands. ¤ ¤>From Harsha's Book of Enlightenment - 1001 stories. ¤ ¤a - We guarantee your Enlightenment and offer extended ¤warranties on it as well. ¤ ¤// A delightful story - illusion for a teaching will have illusion as its fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2000 Report Share Posted May 12, 2000 Harsha wrote: > Hi Andrew. Thanks for your response. > > In the context of the story, I am reminded of a beautiful truth or insight > often indicated metaphorically. The top of the mountain, the highest height, > symbolically can refer to the spiritual/psychic height of Sahasarara Chakra. > When Kundalini Shakti moves up, its last resting place is the "top of the > mountain." From there, if one is totally and utterly indifferent to the > highest height, there can be a "jump of the cliff" so to speak. Grace allows > for this jump into the arms of Divine Beloved. It requires total faith and > trust in the Guru/God/Self/Heart/ or call it what you will for the ultimate > surrender of the mind itself. It is with that "fall" in to the deepest abyss > of emptiness that One Knows the Highest Height and the Deepest Depth are not > different. The Fullest Fullness and the Emptiest Emptiness are Totally > Identical. It is easy to see why mystics become mad, break with traditions, > and are willing to sing their songs even when they are despised. With the > cup always to the lips brimming with divine intoxication, it is easy to see > why mystics become poets. The Same Sameness Everywhere. > > Love > Harsha > Like the zen koan about stepping off the 100 foot pole. Or like falling in love...surrender and physical understanding. Quite mad, blind faith. love, andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2000 Report Share Posted May 13, 2000 In a message dated 5/11/00 2:46:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, hluthar writes: << The king said, "Sublime teachings my foot. This is all a bunch of B.S. Why is your noble teaching not an illusion along with everything else. You are all total idiots! Please be on top of the cliff Sunday morning and I can pay my respects to you and your group in a formal sort of way." Well, the guru and his followers ran away and never showed up on Sunday on top of the local mountain. They applied for visas in foreign lands based on religious persecution. Those visas were granted and they continued to spread their noble and sublime teachings in other lands. From Harsha's Book of Enlightenment - 1001 stories. >> Ha ha ha ha .... l loved this story, Harsha. So that's how so many of these phony lndian teachers got over here???? )))) love, jerrysan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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