Guest guest Posted May 25, 2000 Report Share Posted May 25, 2000 On Mon, 08 May 2000 14:33:02 Paul Misiunas wrote: >I get my thoughts typed out and then it all seems to be >meaningless - so I just delete them. Why clutter a perfectly good list. :-) Why not ? Are we a sacred cow ? >My initial entry to this list brought this reply: "Just be yourself." For >me, those are very dangerous and heart-warming words. As I grapple with >other people's baggage, that I have loaded on the cart for my own, I can >only be thankful for this list finding it's way to me. Between the voices >of imagination and the desire for greatness, I keep myself busy, knowing >full well that what we are cannot be otherwise - no matter what I do. I'm not sure I know what you mean Paul, but I keep thinking about something I heard some time ago. One Buddhist school used to train their students in debate by having them debate equally committed to and with equal knowledge of the views of other schools. In this way, the students got a thorough training in the teachings of others and learned perhaps to appreciate those as well. I also think these students learned to understand the difference between arguments and truth and saw that as you say we are very much a product of the views of those around us. And that we many times agree on certain things just to "get along". Some times I wonder if our personalities are all just excess baggage from the past, leftovers from yesterday's dinner ? Without a clear answer, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2000 Report Share Posted May 26, 2000 At 05:07 PM 5/25/00, you wrote: > >On Mon, 08 May 2000 14:33:02 Paul Misiunas wrote: > >>I get my thoughts typed out and then it all seems to be >>meaningless - so I just delete them. Why clutter a perfectly good list. :-) > > > Why not ? Are we a sacred cow ? May I ask, what happens to the cow dung from sacred cows? Is it reverently left where it falls, is it cleared away, or used for soil or fire? :-)) Just curious... > >>My initial entry to this list brought this reply: "Just be yourself." For >>me, those are very dangerous and heart-warming words. As I grapple with >>other people's baggage, that I have loaded on the cart for my own, I can >>only be thankful for this list finding it's way to me. Between the voices >>of imagination and the desire for greatness, I keep myself busy, knowing >>full well that what we are cannot be otherwise - no matter what I do. > >I'm not sure I know what you mean Paul, I *think* I know what Paul means, Amanda, and Paul, forgive me if I assume too much, it just kind of leapt out at me: - I agree with your words about baggage, and the list :-), and somewhat with the imagination/desire for greatness axis, but in particular with the "keeping busy" attitude. The keeping busy thing: I've been working to release myself from baggage, and that seems to take effort and action. Underneath, hey, here I am (!), yet that illusion encompasses the baggage too... And the desire for action to become... And while I exist in this whirl that I believe myself to be, I must flow through it, it seems. Is this at all close to your feelings, Paul? "Midnight, on a carousel ride, Reaching for the gold ring, Down inside. Never could reach it, Just slips away, When I try...." (The Good Old Grateful Dead) >but I keep thinking about something I heard >some time ago. >One Buddhist school used to train their students >in debate by having them debate equally committed to >and with equal knowledge of the views of other >schools. In this way, the students got a thorough >training in the teachings of others and learned >perhaps to appreciate those as well. Yes! And I guess it showed them the relativity of all viewpoints... Though I never thought I'd hear of Bhuddists likened to lawyers... :-) > >I also think these students learned to understand >the difference between arguments and truth >and saw that as you say we are very much a product of the views of those around us. >And that we many times agree on certain things just >to "get along". Yes, I *totally* agree, Amanda <g> What I get about this is a feeling that under our personal concepts of "truth" is a truth that has no shape, no position, and just is suffused with compassion, because it is all-pervading. After that there's not much left to discuss, or to strive for, or to be. (But I have still a hankering to play here). > >Some times I wonder if our personalities are all just >excess baggage from the past, leftovers >from yesterday's dinner ? Or like the evening news: this is Rob, XYZ News, 10pm, in Little Snoring, Norfolk... :-)) > >Without a clear answer, Thank heavens for the unclear answers! much love, Rob > >Amanda. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Thanks Amanda and Rob for your understanding. >>I get my thoughts typed out and then it all seems to be >>meaningless - so I just delete them. Why clutter a perfectly good list. :-) > > Why not ? Are we a sacred cow ? :-) >>>My initial entry to this list brought this reply: "Just be yourself." For >>>me, those are very dangerous and heart-warming words. As I grapple with >>>other people's baggage, that I have loaded on the cart for my own, I can >>>only be thankful for this list finding it's way to me. Between the voices >>>of imagination and the desire for greatness, I keep myself busy, knowing >>>full well that what we are cannot be otherwise - no matter what I do. >> >>I'm not sure I know what you mean Paul, > >I *think* I know what Paul means, Amanda, and Paul, forgive me if I assume >too much, it just kind of leapt out at me: - > >I agree with your words about baggage, and the list :-), and somewhat with >the imagination/desire for greatness axis, but in particular with the >"keeping busy" attitude. > >The keeping busy thing: I've been working to release myself from baggage, >and that seems to take effort and action. Underneath, hey, here I am (!), >yet that illusion encompasses the baggage too... And the desire for action >to become... And while I exist in this whirl that I believe myself to be, I >must flow through it, it seems. > >Is this at all close to your feelings, Paul? Yes Rob, the recognition of Ourselves and of the attachments with which we purposefully "attach" to ourselves. It's really very humorous! The trouble with baggage is that it always seems to want to get somewhere. And when it gets there, "greatness" is felt, but the final destination remains elusive as ever. Without baggage, how else are we to know that we are going somewhere. .... >>I also think these students learned to understand >>the difference between arguments and truth >>and saw that as you say we are very much a product of the views of those around us. >>And that we many times agree on certain things just >>to "get along". This is great. I'd have the students bypass the extensive learning of other schools of thought and just debate each side of a topic with conviction. After a clear looser and winner is determined, I'd then have them reverse roles. A few times of this would be enough for anyone to realize that any debate is merely an exchange of words, nothing else. Well... that's _my_ opinion! :-)) Maybe the idea of "getting along" is the realization of this and that "truth" can be whatever you want it to be. Knowledge isn't Truth and a debate is only a demonstration of knowledge. As for me, well, I'd rather sit here on my pulpit and preach to my computer screen. That is, of course, when I am not lighting candles and chanting the holy words in deep respect for the Computer. Someday, I am hoping that it will grant me Serenity of Eyestrain. Either that or provide deep, deep insightful, esoteric scribblings on the Screen of Death granting me the choice of Enlightenment or of using the "power off" button... >Yes, I *totally* agree, Amanda <g> What I get about this is a feeling that >under our personal concepts of "truth" is a truth that has no shape, no >position, and just is suffused with compassion, because it is >all-pervading. After that there's not much left to discuss, or to strive >for, or to be. (But I have still a hankering to play here). Well said. >Some times I wonder if our personalities are all just >excess baggage from the past, leftovers >from yesterday's dinner ? If so, our individual nature would be an accumulation of what we have "learned" in the past. Sometimes, I just don't enjoy remembering what the heck I had for dinner, or why I would even care. Be here now!. Oh, is that the dinner bell.... "Leftovers" is a good way to describe it, Amanda. Baggage on a trip to nowhere. Leftovers of a meal that never ends. >>Without a clear answer, > >Thank heavens for the unclear answers! Clearly, more clarification is needed. :-) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Hi All, I've been away, vacationing, and then trying to get caught up after vacationing, so I'm not really following the thread, but I wanted to share a metaphor I enjoy, related to the idea of baggage. I was leaving a Grateful Dead concert in Madison Square Garden (a ritual medicine dance for those who didn't follow the Dead...), when the escalators were turned off, and I saw this metaphor. Life is an escalator (big surprise...). It's a "down escalator", and the goal is to get to the top (ever run up a down escalator? It's fun, but surprisingly tiring). Anyway, for the first while, your parents carry you, and then, they put you down, and you can run up easily, but after awhile, you start getting tired, and slow down... Whether or not you get to the top depends mostly on how many parcels you were carrying. If you don't get to the top, the escalator gently carries you down to the bottom, and you get another birth to try again. What I realize now is that the escalator is in a big department store, and the top of the escalator is simply another floor of cool stuff to start picking up. Maybe there is an escalator to the roof, where you are free to see around you clearly, and you lose interest in stuff. Hmmmm... Happy riding! Love, Mark > The trouble with baggage is that it always seems to want to get > somewhere. > And when it gets there, "greatness" is felt, but the final destination > > remains elusive as ever. Without baggage, how else are we to know that > we > are going somewhere. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 what about the "mezzanine" in between 2 floors idea?..now that makes for an interesting metaphor..will the escalator take you in between the first and the second floor or must one walk? oh but I do remember the dead concerts way back in the early ninties...lots of good "thinking" went on there...mm --- Mark Otter <mark.otter wrote: > Hi All, > > I've been away, vacationing, and then trying to get > caught up after > vacationing, so I'm not really following the > thread, but I wanted to > share a metaphor I enjoy, related to the idea of > baggage. I was leaving > a Grateful Dead concert in Madison Square Garden (a > ritual medicine > dance for those who didn't follow the Dead...), when > the escalators were > turned off, and I saw this metaphor. Life is an > escalator (big > surprise...). It's a "down escalator", and the goal > is to get to the > top (ever run up a down escalator? It's fun, but > surprisingly tiring). > Anyway, for the first while, your parents carry you, > and then, they put > you down, and you can run up easily, but after > awhile, you start getting > tired, and slow down... Whether or not you get to > the top depends > mostly on how many parcels you were carrying. If > you don't get to the > top, the escalator gently carries you down to the > bottom, and you get > another birth to try again. What I realize now is > that the escalator is > in a big department store, and the top of the > escalator is simply > another floor of cool stuff to start picking up. > Maybe there is an > escalator to the roof, where you are free to see > around you clearly, and > you lose interest in stuff. Hmmmm... Happy riding! > > Love, Mark > > > > The trouble with baggage is that it always seems > to want to get > > somewhere. > > And when it gets there, "greatness" is felt, but > the final destination > > > > remains elusive as ever. Without baggage, how else > are we to know that > > we > > are going somewhere. > > > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Messenger. http://im./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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