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On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:00:33 Dan Berkow, PhD wrote:

>Time is like cheese.

>It can be sliced very fine.

>It can be sliced so fine

> that it is seen like frames

> in a movie, giving the appearance

> of movement, but always "nownownow".

>It can be sliced even thinner.

>But then, the observer and observed disappear,

> along with time.

 

That's perfect, Dan ! ;)

 

Thanks for this comment, it lit up the inside of my

head like a neon light. ;)

 

IIRC from my introductory classes in philosophy (and

the only class I took in philosophy, b/c they were

mandatory), some of the old Greek philosophers

made the same thought experiment thousands of years ago.

 

I wonder if it was Demokrit that made this

thought experiment ? Anyway, the philosopher who did, arrived at the

conclusion, like you do, that infinity was what you ended up with when slicing

up time or distance the way you mention here.

 

I may be completely mistaken, but I wonder whether

it was this guy who found out causality was moot

as well. Hmmm, hmmm, this is something I have been

thinking about the last week myself, how our

expectations that from event A follows

event B, because we have observed that happening many times before and gotten

used to the idea. :)

 

 

Anyway, thanks for the comment and good thoughts.

 

Love,

 

Amanda (Hmmm.. there are naked men on tv right now...).

 

 

 

 

 

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

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Hi Amanda,

 

You mention Democritus (460-370 BCE). One of the early Greek philosophers,

he sliced up the world, but not as small as in non-dualism :-). Nondualism

slices until there is no knife and no hand! Anyway, Democritus said

everything was made up of small indivisible solid bodies called "atoms,"

and was indeed the first in the Western world to use this concept.

Physical phenomena are made of collisions of these small bodies. So he

didn't get rid of causality; instead he sought to explain it.

 

The mootness of causality (by implication) was found in the West as early

as Thales (c. 585 BCE). He said "All is water." If everything is truly

any *one* thing, then there can't be the separation required for true cause

and effect.

 

Between you and me, as far as Western philosophers go, no one did a more

effective and more famous job of showing the mootness of causality than

Hume. Almost all Western philosohers, though, by showing the mootness of

one thing, rely even more heavily on somthing else. Like Hume relied on

sensory impressions in his argument against causality. So he left some

rungs on the ladder.

 

The Western philosopher who I think might come the closest to paring it

*all* away is Wittgenstein. One of my great (nondualist) friends did his

doctoral dissertation on W, and I've been asking him to write a W essay for

my page on Western philosophers. I've tried to threaten him: if he doesn't

do the excellent job I'm sure he'll do, then I'll have to do a mediocre job

-- and I don't know very much about W at all!

 

Yours in neon light and now-ness,

 

--Greg

 

 

 

At 05:29 PM 6/22/00, mumble cat wrote:

>

>On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:00:33 Dan Berkow, PhD wrote:

>

>>Time is like cheese.

>>It can be sliced very fine.

>>It can be sliced so fine

>> that it is seen like frames

>> in a movie, giving the appearance

>> of movement, but always "nownownow".

>>It can be sliced even thinner.

>>But then, the observer and observed disappear,

>> along with time.

>

>That's perfect, Dan ! ;)

>

>Thanks for this comment, it lit up the inside of my

>head like a neon light. ;)

>

>IIRC from my introductory classes in philosophy (and

>the only class I took in philosophy, b/c they were

>mandatory), some of the old Greek philosophers

>made the same thought experiment thousands of years ago.

>

>I wonder if it was Demokrit that made this

>thought experiment ? Anyway, the philosopher who did, arrived at the

conclusion, like you do, that infinity was what you ended up with when

slicing up time or distance the way you mention here.

>

>I may be completely mistaken, but I wonder whether

>it was this guy who found out causality was moot

>as well. Hmmm, hmmm, this is something I have been

>thinking about the last week myself, how our

>expectations that from event A follows

>event B, because we have observed that happening many times before and

gotten used to the idea. :)

>

>

>Anyway, thanks for the comment and good thoughts.

>

>Love,

>

>Amanda (Hmmm.. there are naked men on tv right now...).

>

>

>

>

>

>Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

>

>------

>**BELIEFNET SHOPPING** Save $20 at the Beliefnet store! Thousands of

>religious and spiritual gifts and products. Now- get $20 off purchases

>of $50 or more through July 10.

>http://click./1/5591/9/_/520931/_/961694970/

>------

>

>//

>

>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is

Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality

of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to

a.

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GDAY, BRUCE!

 

thotcha might like some AUSTRALIAN music to go with your beer... Hey

Amanda, were those naked men philosophers?

 

BRUCES' PHILSOPHERS SONG

Sung by the Pythons

>From `Monty Python's' album

 

Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant

who was very rarely stable

Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar

who could think you under the table

David Hume could out-consume

Schopenhauer and Hegel

And Wittgenstein was a beery swine

who was just as sloshed as Schlegel

 

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya

'bout the raising of the wrist

Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed

 

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will

after 'alf a pint of shandy was particularly ill

Plato, they say, could stick it away

'alf a crate of whiskey every day

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle

Hobbes was fond of his dram

And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:

"I drink, therefore I am."

 

Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed

A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed

 

sorry, Mark

 

Gregory Goode wrote:

> Hi Amanda,

>

> You mention Democritus (460-370 BCE). One of the early Greek

> philosophers,

> he sliced up the world, but not as small as in non-dualism :-).

> Nondualism

> slices until there is no knife and no hand! Anyway, Democritus said

> everything was made up of small indivisible solid bodies called

> "atoms,"

> and was indeed the first in the Western world to use this concept.

> Physical phenomena are made of collisions of these small bodies. So

> he

> didn't get rid of causality; instead he sought to explain it.

>

> The mootness of causality (by implication) was found in the West as

> early

> as Thales (c. 585 BCE). He said "All is water." If everything is

> truly

> any *one* thing, then there can't be the separation required for true

> cause

> and effect.

>

> Between you and me, as far as Western philosophers go, no one did a

> more

> effective and more famous job of showing the mootness of causality

> than

> Hume. Almost all Western philosohers, though, by showing the mootness

> of

> one thing, rely even more heavily on somthing else. Like Hume relied

> on

> sensory impressions in his argument against causality. So he left

> some

> rungs on the ladder.

>

> The Western philosopher who I think might come the closest to paring

> it

> *all* away is Wittgenstein. One of my great (nondualist) friends did

> his

> doctoral dissertation on W, and I've been asking him to write a W

> essay for

> my page on Western philosophers. I've tried to threaten him: if he

> doesn't

> do the excellent job I'm sure he'll do, then I'll have to do a

> mediocre job

> -- and I don't know very much about W at all!

>

> Yours in neon light and now-ness,

>

> --Greg

>

>

>

> At 05:29 PM 6/22/00, mumble cat wrote:

> >

> >On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:00:33 Dan Berkow, PhD wrote:

> >

> >>Time is like cheese.

> >>It can be sliced very fine.

> >>It can be sliced so fine

> >> that it is seen like frames

> >> in a movie, giving the appearance

> >> of movement, but always "nownownow".

> >>It can be sliced even thinner.

> >>But then, the observer and observed disappear,

> >> along with time.

> >

> >That's perfect, Dan ! ;)

> >

> >Thanks for this comment, it lit up the inside of my

> >head like a neon light. ;)

> >

> >IIRC from my introductory classes in philosophy (and

> >the only class I took in philosophy, b/c they were

> >mandatory), some of the old Greek philosophers

> >made the same thought experiment thousands of years ago.

> >

> >I wonder if it was Demokrit that made this

> >thought experiment ? Anyway, the philosopher who did, arrived at the

>

> conclusion, like you do, that infinity was what you ended up with when

>

> slicing up time or distance the way you mention here.

> >

> >I may be completely mistaken, but I wonder whether

> >it was this guy who found out causality was moot

> >as well. Hmmm, hmmm, this is something I have been

> >thinking about the last week myself, how our

> >expectations that from event A follows

> >event B, because we have observed that happening many times before

> and

> gotten used to the idea. :)

> >

> >

> >Anyway, thanks for the comment and good thoughts.

> >

> >Love,

> >

> >Amanda (Hmmm.. there are naked men on tv right now...).

> >

> >

> >

>

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