Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 We welcome the new members and thank everyone for your presence. Thanks David, Linda, Colette, Nasir, Holly, and Jerrysan Rinpoche about your nice comments about the "Wisdom Eye" Post. I feel I have known you all a long time. I met David Hodges at the recent retreat and my immediate and certain and overwhelming impression was that David is a person of radiant purity, sincerity, and clarity. Meeting him was a joyous occasion. David, as many of you know is a software professional but also has a masters degree in English and is one of the most creative writers. He, like Jerrysan Rinpoche has the ability to directly connect his words with his feelings. The impact is tremendous. Linda, as many know, has a background in intense spiritual practice and is also an experienced astrologer and counselor based on this art. I don't know much about astrology but my older cousin has been learning it since 9th grade. This last weekend in Toronto, I met him after 15 years. He gave me some insight into his method of astrology and also read my palm! After I told him that there are some astrologers on this list, he wanted to join. I have to now find his e-mail address. Holly, many have known for a long time. She is a psychologist, now perhaps retired. I remember Holly mentioning once that years of hearing her clients tell their stories put her constantly in the witness state, and this might have had a profound effect on the Kundalini Shakti and Holly's awakening. Holly's presence is a joy. Nasir is a young, lively, bright, and funny seeker from Singapore. His contribution is his unique presence and off the wall humor and great spiritual insight. Nasir has often brightened our days with his humor and wit when we least expected it. Colette's wisdom and practical insights into the spiritual life are known to everyone. She lives in Australia I believe. Her Guru is Maharshi Mahesh Yogi, the founder of TM. Colette's understanding of Advaita Vedanta is profound. She comes and goes from the list perhaps, but She is always Here. We all know Jerrysan Rinpoche and all the gifts he has and shares freely. There is something authentic, unique, and amazing about Jerrysan Rinpoche. His logic is precise and his analysis, even of the spiritual scene, is always objective. Yet, Jerrysan Rinpoche is a person of great sensitivity, gentle warmth, and humor. We need to get the Zen Garden story reposted again Jerrysan. Thanks Mace for your beautiful poetry and Victor for posting some marvelous quotes and Gloria for continuing to update the retreat pictures. Thanks Skyeryder for your last post as well. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 Dear Harshaji, Your wisdom and positive strokes have brightened many a day -- your planned vacation is hereby canceled! My initial zen garden story is no longer in my computer so l'd have to recompose it at some point, unless there's a way to retrieve it from list archives. Of course, it's constantly being augmented by changes here. l'm presently engrossed in another one of my boulder selection dramas, which involves countless trips to stone centers to look at the same boulder for the 15th time. The hired help often roll their eyes when they see me reappear, which prompts my ego to want to say, "You fools, if you only knew how fortunate your pedestrian stone center is to have a zen master engage your establishment in such a high spiritual endeavor!! You should be catering to my every whim!" But the egoic reaction is viewed with calm detachment and the zen stick is withheld for aspirants who are truly searching .... For those who may have missed it, let me post again the url for Rosie, whose compelling story is a must read. Rosie and her family have been in my heart and prayers constantly after reading about her yesterday. Go to her website and click on the newspaper account from last April -- it's so beautifully written http://www.jbda.net/weloverosie/ love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 Harsha... We welcome the new members and thank everyone for your presence. Thanks Skyeryder for your last post as well. Love to all Harsha Gator here - Skyeryder (Skye E Ryder - real name) is need of more information about this wonderful group of people... looking for more morsel's... an old professor told me once "there are no dumb questions if you do not know the answer..." when I raised my hand in class and stated that "this is a dumb question, but I do not understand?" Smiles of love... Gator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2000 Report Share Posted August 11, 2000 Yeah... give me more that nice words bro..., praise me for I have given nothing to the Satsangh. :-) Nothing is what Satsangh need, right??? LOL. :-) Thanks anyway for your joke of putting my name between those sages :-) Hey, I'm in Indonesia, but using Singapore's server :-) Well, actually I'd like to be able to share something from my level of understanding, but everytime I think to write, I can't write anything, because the last thought was this; " What for? all the people here are wiseful, more experienced and already knew what it is." My mind said intelectual explanations/words are useless here and also there. And guess what? I still can't do something or live this life appropriately with what I've known as the truth. I say to myself, "If you are not able to do things as what you say, then shut up!!!". I have problem with my brain, it can't stop thinking, and that make me sick... Oops, my mind come to "Nothing to say" again, I got to click Send Button now... :-) Thanks Harsha and all of you here, I enjoy your posts so much..., and I'm sorry for not giving any contribution to the list, and also this late reply. And here is a story for keeping your smile :-) Existence > One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in the classroom. The teacher was > going to explain evolution to the children. The teacher asked a little > boy: > Teacher: Tommy do you see the tree outside? > Tommy: Yes. > Teacher: Tommy, do you see the grass outside? > Tommy: Yes. > Teacher: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky. > Tommy: OK. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky. > Teacher: Did you see God? > Tommy: No. > Teacher: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there, he > doesn't exist. > > A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. Teacher > agreed and she asked the boy: > Little Girl: Tommy, do you see the tree outside? > Tommy: Yes. > Little girl: Tommy do you see the grass outside? > Tommy: Yes. > Little girl: Did you see the sky? > Tommy: Yes. > Little Girl: Tommy, do you see the teacher? > Tommy: Yes. > Little Girl: Do you see her brain? > Tommy: No. > Little Girl: Does that mean she doesn't have one? > With Love & Light, Nasir <=== back to silent. > ---------- > Harsha[sMTP:harsha-hkl] > Wednesday, August 09, 2000 7:14 PM > > Thanks and Welcome/Wisdom Eye > > We welcome the new members and thank everyone for your presence. > > Thanks David, Linda, Colette, Nasir, Holly, and Jerrysan Rinpoche about > your > nice comments about the "Wisdom Eye" Post. I feel I have known you all a > long time. > > I met David Hodges at the recent retreat and my immediate and certain and > overwhelming impression was that David is a person of radiant purity, > sincerity, and clarity. Meeting him was a joyous occasion. David, as many > of you know is a software professional but also has a masters degree in > English and is one of the most creative writers. He, like Jerrysan > Rinpoche > has the ability to directly connect his words with his feelings. The > impact > is tremendous. > > Linda, as many know, has a background in intense spiritual practice and is > also an experienced astrologer and counselor based on this art. I don't > know > much about astrology but my older cousin has been learning it since 9th > grade. This last weekend in Toronto, I met him after 15 years. He gave me > some insight into his method of astrology and also read my palm! After I > told him that there are some astrologers on this list, he wanted to join. > I > have to now find his e-mail address. > > Holly, many have known for a long time. She is a psychologist, now perhaps > retired. I remember Holly mentioning once that years of hearing her > clients > tell their stories put her constantly in the witness state, and this might > have had a profound effect on the Kundalini Shakti and Holly's awakening. > Holly's presence is a joy. > > Nasir is a young, lively, bright, and funny seeker from Singapore. His > contribution is his unique presence and off the wall humor and great > spiritual insight. Nasir has often brightened our days with his humor and > wit when we least expected it. > > Colette's wisdom and practical insights into the spiritual life are known > to > everyone. She lives in Australia I believe. Her Guru is Maharshi Mahesh > Yogi, the founder of TM. Colette's understanding of Advaita Vedanta is > profound. She comes and goes from the list perhaps, but She is always > Here. > > We all know Jerrysan Rinpoche and all the gifts he has and shares freely. > There is something authentic, unique, and amazing about Jerrysan Rinpoche. > His logic is precise and his analysis, even of the spiritual scene, is > always objective. Yet, Jerrysan Rinpoche is a person of great sensitivity, > gentle warmth, and humor. > > We need to get the Zen Garden story reposted again Jerrysan. > > Thanks Mace for your beautiful poetry and Victor for posting some > marvelous > quotes and Gloria for continuing to update the retreat pictures. > > Thanks Skyeryder for your last post as well. > > Love to all > Harsha > > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. > It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the > Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of > Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome > all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2000 Report Share Posted August 11, 2000 Nasir Chang wrote: > > Yeah... give me more that nice words bro..., praise me for I have given > nothing to the Satsangh. :-) Nothing is what Satsangh need, right??? LOL. > :-) > > Thanks anyway for your joke of putting my name between those sages :-) > Hey, I'm in Indonesia, but using Singapore's server :-) > > Well, actually I'd like to be able to share something from my level of > understanding, but everytime I think to write, I can't write anything, > because the last thought was this; " What for? all the people here are > wiseful, more experienced and already knew what it is." > My mind said intelectual explanations/words are useless here and also there. > And guess what? I still can't do something or live this life appropriately > with what I've known as the truth. > I say to myself, "If you are not able to do things as what you say, then > shut up!!!". > I have problem with my brain, it can't stop thinking, and that make me > sick... > > Oops, my mind come to "Nothing to say" again, I got to click Send Button > now... :-) > Thanks Harsha and all of you here, I enjoy your posts so much..., and I'm > sorry for not giving any contribution to the list, and also this late reply. There is great wisdom here Nasir! Satsangh needs nothing! But you give your presence. You remind me of Lao-tzu when you talk about saying nothing. Personally I find the ordinary stories of ordinary people like you and me who struggle sometimes a lot more interesting and inspiring than the tales of 'fully finished selfrealised saints'. We are human with our quirks and diversity and foibles and imperfections, that's what's perfect about us, what makes us interesting and fun. Our stories. Of joys and sorrows, successes and failures, sometimes we can't tell one from the other, we never know how things turn out in the end til we're there. If we need to have a reason for being born and living here in this beautiful world, then the best one I can come up with is for our stories, of the course of our lives, never knowing what lies on the next page or the next line. So sometimes we have nothing to say, sometimes we have something to say, sometimes something to be sorry about sometimes not. Until we tell our stories we cannot know what people will think of them, something we may think trivial someone else may find inspiring, and when we tell them we get back reactions which help us in our own understanding. Having nothing to say is a story too. But don't think that what you say is of no interest, things that seem boring and mundane to you may be of great interest to others. Something about where you live for example, the sights and smells when you walk down the street. I live on the east coast of Canada, in a rural place, as I write, out my window there is a cherry tree and a hillside covered with spruce trees. I can see my vegetable garden, I put up a fence around it this year to keep the deer out. Peas and potatos and tomatos are growing well this year, something ate most of my pepper plants. This evening for dinner my wife and I might go down to the beach and buy some fish and chips from someone who sells food out of an old bus there called the "Yum Yum Bus". We'll drive down the beach and park the car and sit and watch the sunset over the hills, or take the dog for a walk. I would be interested in reading such ordinary trivial things about your life. Namaste, andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2000 Report Share Posted August 11, 2000 Hi Andrew and Nasir, I love your candid posts Nasir, and I love something Andrew said: At 02:18 PM 8/11/00 -0300, andrew macnab wrote: There is great wisdom here Nasir! Satsangh needs nothing! But you give your presence. You remind me of Lao-tzu when you talk about saying nothing. Personally I find the ordinary stories of ordinary people like you and me who struggle sometimes a lot more interesting and inspiring than the tales of 'fully finished selfrealised saints'. We are human with our quirks and diversity and foibles and imperfections, that's what's perfect about us, what makes us interesting and fun. Every person is a regular person if we look closely enough. So that's why there is the art of hagiography, to make some regular peoples' stories into inspiring material, to instill faith and spiritual motivation in other people. I agree with Andrew - I prefer these stories here, like the testimony services in church "I couldn't pay the light bill, they were going to shut the lights off. So I prayed, and the next day JEEESUUUS put a check in my mailbox for the exact amount of that light bill, THANK YA JEEEEESUUUS!" THANK YA ANDREWW AND NASIIIIR! --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2000 Report Share Posted August 11, 2000 On 8/11/00 at 12:41 PM Nasir Chang wrote: [...] ºWell, actually I'd like to be able to share something from my level of ºunderstanding, but everytime I think to write, I can't write anything, ºbecause the last thought was this; " What for? all the people here are ºwiseful, more experienced and already knew what it is." Why compare yourself with others? If that would be the everyone's perspective, who would be posting ? Who could compare the "value" of the experience of a beetle, having fallen on its back and trying to get on its feet, and the experience of a president in the process of impeachment? ºMy mind said intelectual explanations/words are useless here and also there. ºAnd guess what? I still can't do something or live this life appropriately ºwith what I've known as the truth. ºI say to myself, "If you are not able to do things as what you say, then ºshut up!!!". ºI have problem with my brain, it can't stop thinking, and that make me ºsick... Mind and body aren't separate - tire one to the extreme and the other will shut up by itself (having recently put on order and cleaned the entire house, I know what I'm talking about:) Probably that was the reason behind the regime of hard work in some former Christian monasteries... º ºOops, my mind come to "Nothing to say" again, I got to click Send Button ºnow... :-) ºThanks Harsha and all of you here, I enjoy your posts so much..., and I'm ºsorry for not giving any contribution to the list, and also this late reply. º ºAnd here is a story for keeping your smile :-) [...] Lovely story - keep them coming. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2000 Report Share Posted August 11, 2000 Dear Brother Andrew, What a beautiful story of your life that you've posted here, I envy you for this. Thanks for your kind words and your interest about my story. I really don't have such a wonderful story like yours, my daily activities are boring. I work at Pulp and Paper company and my office is surrounding by the factory (pulp machines, with many cylinder tanks, structural steels and etc.) You want to know about the smell? it's quite stink... pulp smell. :-) In my office, everyone is very busy... except me :-), the ring of telephones never stop, sometime the boss angry and bang the table :-). But at night, I could watch TV, and HBO is my favourite channel. I love watching movies, some of films that impressed me much are "Forest Gump", "Contact", "The Matrix" and much more..., Have you watch them? Well, I think I got to stop this nonsense, or someone will kick my ass :-) LOL. Here is a joke for people who work at the office; <<ourlife>> With Love & Light, Nasir "Experience is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you." Aldous Huxley > ---------- > andrew macnab[sMTP:a.macnab] > Saturday, August 12, 2000 12:18 AM > > Re: Thanks and Welcome/Wisdom Eye > > Nasir Chang wrote: > > > > Yeah... give me more that nice words bro..., praise me for I have given > > nothing to the Satsangh. :-) Nothing is what Satsangh need, right??? > LOL. > > :-) > > > > Thanks anyway for your joke of putting my name between those sages :-) > > Hey, I'm in Indonesia, but using Singapore's server :-) > > > > Well, actually I'd like to be able to share something from my level of > > understanding, but everytime I think to write, I can't write anything, > > because the last thought was this; " What for? all the people here are > > wiseful, more experienced and already knew what it is." > > My mind said intelectual explanations/words are useless here and also > there. > > And guess what? I still can't do something or live this life > appropriately > > with what I've known as the truth. > > I say to myself, "If you are not able to do things as what you say, then > > shut up!!!". > > I have problem with my brain, it can't stop thinking, and that make me > > sick... > > > > Oops, my mind come to "Nothing to say" again, I got to click Send Button > > now... :-) > > Thanks Harsha and all of you here, I enjoy your posts so much..., and > I'm > > sorry for not giving any contribution to the list, and also this late > reply. > > > > There is great wisdom here Nasir! Satsangh needs nothing! But you give > your presence. > You remind me of Lao-tzu when you talk about saying nothing. Personally I > find the > ordinary stories of ordinary people like you and me who struggle sometimes > a lot more > interesting and inspiring than the tales of 'fully finished selfrealised > saints'. We > are human with our quirks and diversity and foibles and imperfections, > that's what's > perfect about us, what makes us interesting and fun. Our stories. Of joys > and sorrows, > successes and failures, sometimes we can't tell one from the other, we > never know how > things turn out in the end til we're there. If we need to have a reason > for being born > and living here in this beautiful world, then the best one I can come up > with is for > our stories, of the course of our lives, never knowing what lies on the > next page or > the next line. > So sometimes we have nothing to say, sometimes we have something to say, > sometimes > something to be sorry about sometimes not. Until we tell our stories we > cannot know > what people will think of them, something we may think trivial someone > else may find > inspiring, and when we tell them we get back reactions which help us in > our own > understanding. Having nothing to say is a story too. But don't think that > what you say > is of no interest, things that seem boring and mundane to you may be of > great interest > to others. Something about where you live for example, the sights and > smells when you > walk down the street. I live on the east coast of Canada, in a rural > place, as I > write, out my window there is a cherry tree and a hillside covered with > spruce trees. > I can see my vegetable garden, I put up a fence around it this year to > keep the deer > out. Peas and potatos and tomatos are growing well this year, something > ate most of my > pepper plants. This evening for dinner my wife and I might go down to the > beach and > buy some fish and chips from someone who sells food out of an old bus > there called the > "Yum Yum Bus". We'll drive down the beach and park the car and sit and > watch the > sunset over the hills, or take the dog for a walk. I would be interested > in reading > such ordinary trivial things about your life. > > Namaste, > > andrew > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. > It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the > Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of > Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome > all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Attachment: (image/gif) ourlife.gif [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2000 Report Share Posted August 12, 2000 Dear Brother Jan, Thanks very much for your insightful comments, it makes my understanding better. I love the parable :-), a president in the process of impeachment, are you teasing Indonesia's president Gus Dur? :-) All people here called him "Blurt Out". :-) Well, one of my problems is judgmental, and Mike has written about this very comprehensively in one of his menageries. Thanks Brother Mike, it helped me much. Here it is; To Judge or Not To Judge...: There is little room left for wisdom when one is full of judgment. -Malcolm Hein Webster's dictionary defines judgment as: "The process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing." I figured that it would be good to look this word up because judging is something I spend an awful lot of time doing. I think that most of us do, and I believe that it leads to any number of problems for us. When I myself judge another person I tend not to do much discerning and comparing. Instead, what I usually do is to make a pronouncement that has as its goal making myself feel better. Rarely do my thoughts go along the lines of, "After considering this person, his actions, and his underlying situation, I do believe that this person is a fine, upstanding, admirable person." Instead, my thoughts tend to be along the lines of, "Stupid idiot! Where did this asshole learn how to drive? And what an ugly shirt, almost as ugly as his hair..." Lately I have been paying attention to just how much judging of others I do. I spend much of my day making judgments (almost invariably negative judgments) of others. I do it especially when I am irritable, tired, stressed or angry. At these times most everything in my immediate environment is judged, and found wanting. So what's the problem with judging things? In short, it makes me unhappy (or prolongs my unhappiness if I am already feeling unhappy). Almost without fail, when I judge others I am doing so in order to put myself in a favorable light. I can very easily judge myself as smarter, more clever, more skilled, or more whatever than anyone in my company (even more humble, a suggestion that my judging isn't logical or trustworthy). However, even when I have judged myself the best person in the room, invariably I still feel insecure and unhappy with myself. This should be a hint for me that being judgmental isn't working for me (but I'm not very good on picking up on hints, even ones that are presented to me daily). When I judge others I am reinforcing to myself that the world itself is a judgmental place (and I can always find someone who can be judged more favorably than myself). Also, when I am judging others I intrinsically believe that they are judging me, and this makes me feel even worse about myself. And by judging others as being either good or bad, I am reinforcing to myself that looks (and actions) are the main determinants of worth, rather than that every person is a child of God worthy of love and respect. If I am able to grant this love and respect to others, I can more easily start extending it to myself. I has been said that "all judgment is self-judgment," and this does make some sense to me. When I find myself being most judgmental toward someone it is often because something about this person reminds me on some level of some aspect of myself I am not comfortable with. An example: Ironically, probably the type of person I am most judgmental toward are people who are very judgmental and intolerant themselves. So I have an intolerance of intolerance. This drives me absolutely nuts! Here I am trying to feel good about myself by thinking that I am better than those judgmental people out there when I realize that what I am doing is what I have accused (and convicted) others of doing. Judging doesn't lead to happiness. In fact, judging leads me away from love. Judging keeps me in the fearful and miserable state that prompted my being judgmental in the first place. And the world itself is very judgmental, thus reinforcing judgment as a natural part of life. Look how society and the media stress how your looks and possessions are the primary determinants of what kind of person you are. This doesn't lead to peace and acceptance of oneself. I suggest that one of the best ways to begin being less judgmental is to be accepting of yourself. When I am comfortable with myself, I don't need to compare myself with others (by judging them) in order to make myself feel better. When I accept myself as a child of the universe who is supposed to be here, I have less of a need to impress others or worry about how I compare with them. When I truly believe that I "stack up," not by doing or having anything but instead just by being myself, I can extend this intrinsic worthiness to others. During the moments I have been able to do this, peace and love come rushing into my life, and life is good, ahhhh so good. Thought for the day: Accepting myself as I am leads to accepting others as they are, without judgment. This is a crucial ingredient to lasting inner peace. With Love & Light, Nasir > ---------- > jb[sMTP:kvy9] > Saturday, August 12, 2000 6:14 AM > > RE: Thanks and Welcome/Wisdom Eye > > On 8/11/00 at 12:41 PM Nasir Chang wrote: > > [...] > ºWell, actually I'd like to be able to share something from my level of > ºunderstanding, but everytime I think to write, I can't write anything, > ºbecause the last thought was this; " What for? all the people here are > ºwiseful, more experienced and already knew what it is." > > Why compare yourself with others? If that would be the everyone's > perspective, who would be posting ? Who could compare the "value" of the > experience of a beetle, having fallen on its back and trying to get on its > feet, and the experience of a president in the process of impeachment? > > ºMy mind said intelectual explanations/words are useless here and also > there. > ºAnd guess what? I still can't do something or live this life > appropriately > ºwith what I've known as the truth. > ºI say to myself, "If you are not able to do things as what you say, then > ºshut up!!!". > ºI have problem with my brain, it can't stop thinking, and that make me > ºsick... > > Mind and body aren't separate - tire one to the extreme and the other will > shut up by itself (having recently put on order and cleaned the entire > house, I know what I'm talking about:) Probably that was the reason behind > the regime of hard work in some former Christian monasteries... > º > ºOops, my mind come to "Nothing to say" again, I got to click Send Button > ºnow... :-) > ºThanks Harsha and all of you here, I enjoy your posts so much..., and I'm > ºsorry for not giving any contribution to the list, and also this late > reply. > º > ºAnd here is a story for keeping your smile :-) > [...] > Lovely story - keep them coming. > > Jan // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. > It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the > Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of > Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome > all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2000 Report Share Posted August 12, 2000 In a message dated 8/11/2000 11:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nasir writes: << So I have an intolerance of intolerance. This drives me absolutely nuts! >> Lovely post, Nasir. I picked up a practice from one of Charlotte Joko Beck's books that helps me a lot when I'm in a judgemental mood (uncannily associated with hormone fluctuations, I might add!). The trick is not to judge yourself for being judgemental, so you just label, serenely, "judging, judging, judging" when you find yourself doing so. It's true that when you first observe how much judging goes on, it's utterly shocking! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2000 Report Share Posted August 12, 2000 Nasir Chang wrote: > > Dear Brother Andrew, > > What a beautiful story of your life that you've posted here, I envy you for > this. > Thanks for your kind words and your interest about my story. I really don't > have such a wonderful story like yours, my daily activities are boring. > I work at Pulp and Paper company and my office is surrounding by the factory > (pulp machines, with many cylinder tanks, structural steels and etc.) You > want to know about the smell? it's quite stink... pulp smell. :-) > In my office, everyone is very busy... except me :-), the ring of telephones > never stop, sometime the boss angry and bang the table :-). > But at night, I could watch TV, and HBO is my favourite channel. I love > watching movies, some of films that impressed me much are "Forest Gump", > "Contact", "The Matrix" and much more..., Have you watch them? > Well, I think I got to stop this nonsense, or someone will kick my ass :-) > LOL. > Here is a joke for people who work at the office; > > <<ourlife>> > With Love & Light, > Nasir > > "Experience is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what > happens to you." > Aldous Huxley > Yes I know the smell well, there's a pulp plant a few miles down the road, actually much less stinky in recent years since new environmental laws were passed. My image of Indonesia is coloured by tourist brochures, I wasn't thinking of heavy industry. There is a noble story here, of Nasir with the pure heart of stillness, in the midst of the stink and the bustle. In the office, in the mill. Just a story, not true not false, like all our stories. Integral to this strange far-flung satsangh, this true community. Krishnamurti once jokingly said to someone who kept talking and asking questions; "My mind is like a millpond, yours is like a mill." love, andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2000 Report Share Posted August 12, 2000 andrew macnab wrote: > > Nasir Chang wrote: > > > > Yeah... give me more that nice words bro..., praise me for I have given > > nothing to the Satsangh. :-) Nothing is what Satsangh need, right??? LOL. > > :-) > > > > Thanks anyway for your joke of putting my name between those sages :-) > > Hey, I'm in Indonesia, but using Singapore's server :-) > > > > Well, actually I'd like to be able to share something from my level of > > understanding, but everytime I think to write, I can't write anything, > > because the last thought was this; " What for? all the people here are > > wiseful, more experienced and already knew what it is." > > My mind said intelectual explanations/words are useless here and also there. > > And guess what? I still can't do something or live this life appropriately > > with what I've known as the truth. > > I say to myself, "If you are not able to do things as what you say, then > > shut up!!!". > > I have problem with my brain, it can't stop thinking, and that make me > > sick... > > > > Oops, my mind come to "Nothing to say" again, I got to click Send Button > > now... :-) > > Thanks Harsha and all of you here, I enjoy your posts so much..., and I'm > > sorry for not giving any contribution to the list, and also this late reply. > > > There is great wisdom here Nasir! Satsangh needs nothing! But you give your presence. > You remind me of Lao-tzu when you talk about saying nothing. Personally I find the > ordinary stories of ordinary people like you and me who struggle sometimes a lot more > interesting and inspiring than the tales of 'fully finished selfrealised saints'. We > are human with our quirks and diversity and foibles and imperfections, that's what's > perfect about us, what makes us interesting and fun. Our stories. Of joys and sorrows, > successes and failures, sometimes we can't tell one from the other, we never know how > things turn out in the end til we're there. If we need to have a reason for being born > and living here in this beautiful world, then the best one I can come up with is for > our stories, of the course of our lives, never knowing what lies on the next page or > the next line. > So sometimes we have nothing to say, sometimes we have something to say, sometimes > something to be sorry about sometimes not. Until we tell our stories we cannot know > what people will think of them, something we may think trivial someone else may find > inspiring, and when we tell them we get back reactions which help us in our own > understanding. Having nothing to say is a story too. But don't think that what you say > is of no interest, things that seem boring and mundane to you may be of great interest > to others. Something about where you live for example, the sights and smells when you > walk down the street. I live on the east coast of Canada, in a rural place, as I > write, out my window there is a cherry tree and a hillside covered with spruce trees. > I can see my vegetable garden, I put up a fence around it this year to keep the deer > out. Peas and potatos and tomatos are growing well this year, something ate most of my > pepper plants. This evening for dinner my wife and I might go down to the beach and > buy some fish and chips from someone who sells food out of an old bus there called the > "Yum Yum Bus". We'll drive down the beach and park the car and sit and watch the > sunset over the hills, or take the dog for a walk. I would be interested in reading > such ordinary trivial things about your life. > > Namaste, > > andrew Yes, it never gets better than that. I find the most delicious and memorable times are simple times. Jerry -- We are the Nonduality Generation. http://www.nonduality.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2000 Report Share Posted August 12, 2000 On 8/12/00 at 11:41 AM Nasir Chang wrote: ºDear Brother Jan, º ºThanks very much for your insightful comments, it makes my understanding ºbetter. ºI love the parable :-), a president in the process of impeachment, are you ºteasing Indonesia's president Gus Dur? :-) All people here called him º"Blurt Out". :-) Bulls eye ) º ºWell, one of my problems is judgmental, and Mike has written about this very ºcomprehensively in one of his menageries. Thanks Brother Mike, it helped me ºmuch. ºHere it is; º ºTo Judge or Not To Judge...: º ºThere is little room left for wisdom when one is full of judgment. º-Malcolm Hein º ºWebster's dictionary defines judgment as: "The process of forming an ºopinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing." I figured that it would ºbe good to look this word up because judging is something I spend an awful ºlot of time doing. I think that most of us do, and I believe that it leads ºto any number of problems for us. I tend to agree with that - discerning and comparing is a part of judging. But what is called the "problem" of judging, comes from drawing conclusions, without realizing that is the "final" part of the process. º ºWhen I myself judge another person I tend not to do much discerning and ºcomparing. Instead, what I usually do is to make a pronouncement that has ºas its goal making myself feel better. Rarely do my thoughts go along the ºlines of, "After considering this person, his actions, and his underlying ºsituation, I do believe that this person is a fine, upstanding, admirable ºperson." Instead, my thoughts tend to be along the lines of, "Stupid idiot! ºWhere did this asshole learn how to drive? And what an ugly shirt, almost ºas ugly as his hair..." That is clear - observing one's style of driving and comparing with other known styles is one thing - the conclusion that someone is an "asshole" as a driver, is something else. The conditions that cause someone to drive like that are unknown - when fully known, you would understand, still compare driving styles, but no longer come at the same conclusion (or any conclusion at all). ºLately I have been paying attention to just how much judging of others I do. ºI spend much of my day making judgments (almost invariably negative ºjudgments) of others. I do it especially when I am irritable, tired, ºstressed or angry. At these times most everything in my immediate ºenvironment is judged, and found wanting. The harm is that unconsciously, one is judging oneself in a similar way - not a way of a "happy life". ºSo what's the problem with judging things? In short, it makes me ºunhappy (or prolongs my unhappiness if I am already feeling unhappy). ºAlmost without fail, when I judge others I am doing so in order to put ºmyself in a favorable light. I can very easily judge myself as smarter, ºmore clever, more skilled, or more whatever than anyone in my company (even ºmore humble, a suggestion that my judging isn't logical or trustworthy). ºHowever, even when I have judged myself the best person in the room, ºinvariably I still feel insecure and unhappy with myself. ºThis should be a hint for me that being judgmental isn't working for me (but ºI'm not very good on picking up on hints, even ones that are ºpresented to me daily). Right, a human being is "designed" for cooperation, compassion, trust, etc.in other words, "social" life. Without the process of discernment and comparing that would be impossible. One might say that drawing a conclusion has its basis in the inability to change things, as the structure of modern society doesn't permit to easily change things (talking to a perceived "asshole driver" would certainly change one's judgement). Human beings are "designed" to live in small communities, where a separation between individuals couldn't become large without being noticed by other members of that community and subsequently dealt with. º ºWhen I judge others I am reinforcing to myself that the world itself is ºa judgmental place (and I can always find someone who can be judged more ºfavorably than myself). Also, when I am judging others I ºintrinsically believe that they are judging me, and this makes me feel ºeven worse about myself. And by judging others as being either good or bad, ºI am reinforcing to myself that looks (and actions) are the main ºdeterminants of worth, rather than that every person is a child of God ºworthy of love and respect. If I am able to grant this love and respect to ºothers, I can more easily start extending it to myself. It isn't that different to tear away the basis of one's judgement: 1. no matter how skilled (intelligent, witty etc.) I am, there is bound to be (born) someone more skilled (intelligent, witty etc.) . 2. no matter how skilled (intelligent, witty etc.) I am, the basic emotions (providing the backbone of society) are the same for everyone. Once, one of my former colleagues was behaving like a jerk - everyone noticed. But I sensed there was more to it, started a conversation with that colleague despite the jerkiness and it turned out he had a big problem at home, which was the cause for his behavior. He was so occupied by it that he hadn't noticed the effect of his mood on others; he apologized and we had a good conversation º ºI has been said that "all judgment is self-judgment," and this does make ºsome sense to me. When I find myself being most judgmental toward someone ºit is often because something about this person reminds me on some level of ºsome aspect of myself I am not comfortable with. An example: Ironically, ºprobably the type of person I am most judgmental toward are people who are ºvery judgmental and intolerant themselves. ºSo I have an intolerance of intolerance. This drives me absolutely nuts! ºHere I am trying to feel good about myself by thinking that I am better than ºthose judgmental people out there when I realize that what I am doing is ºwhat I have accused (and convicted) others of doing. All judgment is from the perspective as if one were "in the skin" of the person that is judged. That is the error - one doesn't know the other person. The "blind spot" is that one cannot judge another person from one's "own" perspective - one has to know the perspective of the one that is judged. ºJudging doesn't lead to happiness. In fact, judging leads me away from ºlove. Judging keeps me in the fearful and miserable state that prompted my ºbeing judgmental in the first place. And the world itself is very ºjudgmental, thus reinforcing judgment as a natural part of life. Look how ºsociety and the media stress how your looks and possessions are the primary ºdeterminants of what kind of person you are. This doesn't lead to peace and ºacceptance of oneself. That is absolutely right - judging from "my" perspective doesn't lead to happiness and it will veil love. The trick is to involve other perspectives... The more perspectives are known, the more one will see "the way to happiness" or the "righteous" way of living, independent of cultural biases. ºI suggest that one of the best ways to begin being less judgmental is to be ºaccepting of yourself. When I am comfortable with myself, I don't need to ºcompare myself with others (by judging them) in order to make myself feel ºbetter. When I accept myself as a child of the universe who is supposed to ºbe here, I have less of a need to impress others or worry about how I ºcompare with them. When I truly believe that I "stack up," not by doing or ºhaving anything but instead just by being myself, I can extend this ºintrinsic worthiness to others. During the moments I have been able to do ºthis, peace and love come rushing into my life, and life is good, ahhhh so ºgood. º ºThought for the day: Accepting myself as I am leads to accepting ºothers as they are, without judgment. This is a crucial ingredient to ºlasting inner peace. º ºWith Love & Light, ºNasir True, accepting yourself means accepting others. Realizing that one's conclusions can be wrong despite good observation is another way of accepting others. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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