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That is a very good question! I'd like to know, too!

 

--Greg

 

At 10:28 AM 8/14/00 -0500, Skyeryder wrote:

>>>>

Prayer Beads are used in many religions... what is their origin? Does

anyone know?

 

Smiles... Robert

 

----------

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Check out

 

http://members.ols.net/~michael/PrayerBeads.html

 

--Jerry

 

Greg Goode wrote:

>

> That is a very good question! I'd like to know, too!

>

> --Greg

>

> At 10:28 AM 8/14/00 -0500, Skyeryder wrote:

> >>>>

> Prayer Beads are used in many religions... what is their origin? Does

> anyone know?

>

> Smiles... Robert

 

--

We are the Nonduality Generation.

http://www.nonduality.com

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also see

 

http://www.obcon.org/sabsrosar.html

 

however neither of these links provides in-depth information

on the origin of prayer beads, but they're interesting.

 

Jerry

 

umbada wrote:

>

> Check out

>

> http://members.ols.net/~michael/PrayerBeads.html

>

> --Jerry

>

> Greg Goode wrote:

> >

> > That is a very good question! I'd like to know, too!

> >

> > --Greg

> >

> > At 10:28 AM 8/14/00 -0500, Skyeryder wrote:

> > >>>>

> > Prayer Beads are used in many religions... what is their origin? Does

> > anyone know?

> >

> > Smiles... Robert

>

> --

> We are the Nonduality Generation.

> http://www.nonduality.com

> //

>

--

We are the Nonduality Generation.

http://www.nonduality.com

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> Prayer Beads are used in many religions... what is their origin? Does

anyone

> know?

>

> Smiles... Robert

 

One can only wonder, and speculate,

 

Lost in the infertile desert,

Eons ago,

With only a few seeds in the hand

One can only hesitate between planting them for food

Or simply eating the few that are left.

 

In hesitation,

Turning them in one hand,

Prayer and time are born,

>From wanting to survive.

 

I would like to know also.

 

Antoine

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Meditation is not the repetition

of the word, nor the experiencing

ofvision, nor the cultivating of

silence. The bead and the word

do quieten the chattering mind,

but this is a form of self-

hypnosis. You might as well take

a pill. -- J. Krishnamurti

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On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:27:09 -0700 "Mark Hovila" <hovila (AT) foxinternet (DOT) net> writes:Bruce,

> I agree with Krishnamurti.

I do too, that's why I posted

the quotation.

> His view is echoed by Dr. R.P. Kaushik (whose books are unfortunately out of print).

Never heard of him, thanks for

the introduction to his writing.

>Dr. Kaushik said in his book Light of Exploration that mantras and similar techniques act

>like drugs, in that that they inhibit the cerebral functions and stimulate the lower

>functions of the brain. Quoting from page 44:

>"You can only look at the fact, and only when you see the fact do the

brain cells become >silent. Unless you see the fact, you live in

areas of projection and fantasy, and continue >in the old conditioned

mind. You cannot transcend this conditioned mind through any method,

>technique, system, or wishful thinking.

Amen!

>The only way is to look at the fact as it is. Then

>there is total silence; there is no more projection possible. But

the silence which you >create through a mantra or a technique is an

inhibition of certain areas of the brain and a >stimulation of

certain other areas. It is a partial silence, which as a matter of

fact, >looking from a broader perspective, is dullness. You can

stimulate your thalamic areas and >feel that you have become very

senitive--but you have also become dull, because you have >supressed

the cerebral functions."

Very well stated. I see some

mantra-based techniques as

less deadening than others.

Some of them are extraordinarily

well designed with the pitfalls

clearly taken into account -- TM

(the practice and not the highly

suspect organization behind it)

is excellent in this respect,

since no deep meaning is assigned

to the mantra and it is "recited"

internally and not chanted, but

as Dr. Kaushik noted, in the end

"The only way is to look at the

fact as it is." This doesn't

mean one must never utter a

mantra, chant a beautiful prayer,

or finger beads, but rather that

one does well to understand the

nature and limitations of such

activities, including the

potential for drug-like

habituation and escape from that

which one fears most -- most

often, this is "to look at the

fact as it is."

Thanks again, Mark.

>Mark

>>Meditation is not the repetition >>of the word, nor the experiencing

>>ofvision, nor the cultivating of >>silence. The bead and the word

>>do quieten the chattering mind, >>but this is a form of

self->>hypnosis. You might as well take >>a pill. -- J.

Krishnamurti

http://come.to/realizationhttp://www.atman.net/realizationhttp://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htmhttp://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

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Hello Sri Markji and Sri Bruceji. Thanks for your very enlightening

comments. You must have joined recently Mark, and if so welcome. In

fact, let me welcome all the new members.

Mark, I liked very much the points you raised with James post. Perhaps

James will address them. This is a sangha and so there is valuable

opportunity for interaction with people holding diverse views.

As far as Krishnamurti's and Dr. R. P. Kaushik's views on mantras go,

I believe their views to be limited and not applicable to everyone or

even useful for everyone. Perhaps it is an example of how those who

attempt to defy dogma and preach that "Truth is a Pathless Land" in

various ways risk becoming dogmatic themselves. Kaushik's view that

mantras can act like drugs is indeed correct but again only partly so

and to leave it at that is misleading. Pranayama and running can also

have profound effects on the mind and body similar to drugs. Still,

people find them useful in one way or another.

Various techniques and methods and spiritual practices are indication

of the desire for freedom and are meant to create a certain mental

atmosphere in which the operation of grace might become possible.

Different people are attracted to a variety of practices based on

their physical and psychological makeup.

I wonder if either Krishnamurti or Kaushik ever seriously practiced

mantra meditation fully to completion.

The Truth is that Truth is indeed a Pathless Land.

Love to all

Harsha

Mark Hovila

[hovila (AT) foxinternet (DOT) net]Monday, August 14, 2000 1:27

PM Subject: Re: Prayer

Beads

Bruce,

I agree with Krishnamurti. His view is echoed by Dr. R.P. Kaushik

(whose books are unfortunately out of print). Dr. Kaushik said in

his book Light of Exploration that mantras and similar techniques act

like drugs, in that that they inhibit the cerebral functions and

stimulate the lower functions of the brain. Quoting from page 44:

"You can only look at the fact, and only when you see the fact do the

brain cells become silent. Unless you see the fact, you live in

areas of projection and fantasy, and continue in the old conditioned

mind. You cannot transcend this conditioned mind through any method,

technique, system, or wishful thinking. The only way is to look at

the fact as it is. Then there is total silence; there is no more

projection possible. But the silence which you create through a

mantra or a technique is an inhibition of certain areas of the brain

and a stimulation of certain other areas. It is a partial silence,

which as a matter of fact, looking from a broader perspective, is

dullness. You can stimulate your thalamic areas and feel that you

have become very senitive--but you have also become dull, because you

have supressed the cerebral functions."

Mark

Meditation is not the repetition

of the word, nor the experiencing

ofvision, nor the cultivating of

silence. The bead and the word

do quieten the chattering mind,

but this is a form of self-

hypnosis. You might as well take

a pill. -- J. Krishnamurti

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Quoting Bruce Morgen <editor:

> Meditation is not the repetition

> of the word, nor the experiencing

> ofvision, nor the cultivating of

> silence. The bead and the word

> do quieten the chattering mind,

> but this is a form of self-

> hypnosis. You might as well take

> a pill. -- J. Krishnamurti

 

Virupa an Indian Maha Siddha really got disgusted and threw his mala

(prayer beads) into the toilet. It is said that about this time he

found out which way the mop flops. He was one of the great masters in

olden times.

 

Victor

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