If Only

September 9, 2000

Victor Torrico <vtorrico

> Help I'm tired of all the dead ends and alleys to nowhere. Do I really

want to keep going on the spiritual path? Should I just drop it? What to

do? What to do?

Hello Victor,

What is a spiritual path?

Never seen one that is different than a flower growing under the sun to

reach nothing and to die from there and form a seed for a next flower to

grow from a tree. Searching for a spiritual path often makes one miss the

wonders of every little things that form that sweet illusion of a

distinction between the one writing and the one reading these words.

Antoine

September 9, 2000

On Sat, 09 Sep 2000 15:37:41 Michael Read wrote:

>If Only I would see

>The trick God has played on me.

>

>Created and uncreated are one the same

>Each of us a part of the great game.

>

>From vastness and love and eternal bliss

>To live in a body that must shit and piss!

>

>HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

That was a good one, thanks for sending.

I guess that also addressed some of Marcia's thoughts about how difficult (or

easy ?) it is to integrate spiritual "highs" with the chores of daily life.

Funny and wondersome indeed.

Love,

Amanda.

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

September 9, 2000

Dear Mark,

Yeah, It's not fun to get to that bullshit place every now and again.

It's nice to know it's only temporary and will definitely not hang

around forever. Letting go is sometimes difficult --- it's so easy to

make a big deal of it --- Why me Lord? Why can't we simply be?

Condtioning and our Pavlovian response to conditioning is Hell. Bye,

bye conditioning. Why can't we just drop it? Doesn't seem to happen

that way. Intellectually we can drop it but not in our gut.

Relaxation is the clue. But how?

Thanks for your very real kindness in your reply.

Love, Victor

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Quoting Mark W. Otter <mark.otter:

Dear Victor,

I know what you mean. There is this dead end place that is unpleasant

to say the least. I seem to be spending a good deal of time there these

days. (and people like Judi and Michael and OH (Indra each and everyone

of them) keep patting me on the back for some reason and talking about

ego death and how wonderful the other side is...) I want to smack each

and every one of them at times. On the other hand, I wonder if perhaps

you and I (and everyone in that place) might not be wise to listen to

our own advice that we have often given and often heard and often seen

the truth of, that we are already what we are seeking. I mean that

perhaps something already is, but that we are looking at the wrong end

of things. I feel, when I am there, a great deal of frustration that

"I" don't get it. "I" am just in huge pain, and everything makes me

hurt and all I can do is say "what if". While it is very difficult to

imagine in that place that "I" may not exist, and from where I am today,

it is much easier because it is theoretical ("I" am feeling fine today

so imagining not existing is not a big deal, I just imagine it and laugh

because it clearly isn't true at this time, and I'm not worried about

the future today) Perhaps it is ("I" am speculating here) Perhaps it is

in that place in particular that "I" must let go of "I" to see the

light. Good luck, Victor. If you are in that place, let go and tell me

what happens. Perhaps your courage will enable mine. Gate, Gate,

Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! (Svaha, dude!)

Love, Mark

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Victor Torrico wrote:

Hi all,

This I wrote a while back. Still lookin'.

Victor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If only I didn't waste my time at the computer

If only my wife were interested in spiritual things

If only I could be in a spiritual community

If only I could practice more

If only that didn't happen then I could practice

If only my mind would stop these thousands of thoughts

If only I understood what to do or not do

If only I had lots of money

If only I were really aware

If only I knew what to do

If only I could find a realized person

If only I could go to India or Nepal

If only I could truly love myself

If only I could truly love others

If only ...

Help I'm tired of all the dead ends and alleys to nowhere. Do I

really want to keep going on the spiritual path? Should I just drop it?

What to do? What to do?

~~

September 9, 2000

Dear Michael,

Guess it's not a game if you don't see it as a game. Oh to see it as

a game.

Hope your bout has passed.

May we both loosen up and relax,

Victor

Quoting Michael Read <maread:

Dear Victor,

Yes, if only.

If Only I would see

The trick God has played on me.

Created and uncreated are one the same

Each of us a part of the great game.

>From vastness and love and eternal bliss

To live in a body that must shit and piss!

HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

Peace - please pass the gravy - Michael

September 9, 2000

Hey, does Michael have a bout? I wanna bout... no wait, that's boat.

Never mind. So ferry 'cross the Mersey,

cause that's the place where I belong... golly, sometimes I even wanna

pout. what's it all a bout? Yikes, I am a silly man. Gotta go see

Mary. Take it easy, see ya Monday.

Love, Mark

Victor Torrico wrote:

>

> Dear Michael,

>

> Guess it's not a game if you don't see it as a game. Oh to see it as

> a game.

>

> Hope your bout has passed.

>

> May we both loosen up and relax,

>

> Victor

>

> Quoting Michael Read <maread:

>

> Dear Victor,

>

> Yes, if only.

>

> If Only I would see

> The trick God has played on me.

>

> Created and uncreated are one the same

> Each of us a part of the great game.

>

> >From vastness and love and eternal bliss

> To live in a body that must shit and piss!

>

> HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

>

> Peace - please pass the gravy - Michael

>

> //

>

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and

> subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

> different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the

> nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always

> Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart

> to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the

> Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It

> Self. Welcome all to a.

>

> To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at

> www., and select the User Center link

> from the menu bar

> on the left. This menu will also let you change

> your subscription

> between digest and normal mode.

>

September 9, 2000

Hi Antoine,

It may well be an illusion but it seems real and painful. Luckily it

seems to always go away. Life goes on whether illusory or not. Seems

like illusion is only self-created by the thought process. Reality

lurks beyoond thought. Then perhaps the non-separation, you so

beautifully describe, is seen.

Victor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quoting Antoine Carré <carrea:

Victor Torrico <vtorrico

> Help I'm tired of all the dead ends and alleys to nowhere. Do I really

want to keep going on the spiritual path? Should I just drop it? What to

do? What to do?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello Victor,

What is a spiritual path?

Never seen one that is different than a flower growing under the sun to

reach nothing and to die from there and form a seed for a next flower to

grow from a tree. Searching for a spiritual path often makes one miss the

wonders of every little things that form that sweet illusion of a

distinction between the one writing and the one reading these words.

Antoine

~~

September 9, 2000

Dear Mark and Victor,

Hey, no piggy-back rides! Sometimes what we need to do is just stare reality in

the face without blinking. Someone wise once said something like, for better or

worse, THIS is the coliseum you have chosen to wake up in. (And hey, that it

seems lousy conditions is probably all the more reason to suspect it was my

choice. LOL) Well Mark, if you want no fear and a nice cushy landing, right

there is the cause of (seemingly) not getting anywhere. If you go to the edge of

all that you already know and take one more step, of course it will feel fearful

to go into the unknown and let go. And it's only a dead end place, if you do

stop. Don't we all know the drill on the ego and attachment, so there is more to

this than just knowing about it. Does it help any to say that the "I" is your

little tattered security blanket you drag around with you and just about as

useful. And have you ever actually managed to stop anywhere? I can't, tho not

looking for a final resting place, any old oasis will do me. "It's always

something. If its not one thing, it's another." as rosanne roseanna danner used

to say.

Like just when has life ever stopped to listen to yours or my preferences? Here

is one of my all-time favorite quotes:

Life cannot wait until the sciences have explained the universe

scientifically. We cannot put off living until we are ready. The most salient

characteristic of life is its coerciveness: It is always urgent ... without

any possible postponement. Life is fired at us point-blank.

-- Jose Ortega Y Gasset

So, what do I know really about anyone else? Let me just venture a guess, based

on what I know about myself. This message has gotten a lot more dramatic than

what I started out to say. The great tales of sudden awakenings and zen satoris

do somehow lead a person to wonder if there is just some one step to take that

for ever afterwards will make life a piece of cake, a walk thru the park. But

you know, just suppose you have already had that satori... well, then it will be

time to put one foot in front of the other and go on to chop wood and carry

water. You will still have the career move to make, Mark..and Victor will still

have his wife and all the other conditions to deal with. For me, behind all

this is some desire to escape life's burdens and difficulties, or a wish to be

infallible and trouble free. ..wouldn't it be nice, tho? Hey, if you do figure

that out, please let me know. Anyway, I think we are only kidding ourselves if

we think we have postponed anything...life is a' happening anyway.

Victor, you are so much better than you seem to realize. I mean you keep saying,

all that you did got you nowhere..but the man I met was so kind and

compassionate and understanding..was that all an accident? I'm not unsympathetic

with the feeling you are expressing here..it's very familiar to me too..I just

wanted to remind you that this too could even be good news. I mean running out..

Because the more I am thinking, oh if I just read that book or do this

technique, then I will have it made and have it my way. But life is not Burger

King, is it..damn. Victor, I am in the same boat. (See Mark, you already have a

boat!!) I have lost track of how many times and in how many ways, you have

expressed that acceptance of what_is is a key understanding and being in the

moment.. and relaxing, etc..see, I think you do already know and understand so

much, it maybe just isn't giving you the results you wanted or meeting your

expectations? Well, I yell, "let go, let go" at myself rather often, so maybe I

am still just talking to myself. I don't think this is supposed to be easy.

With love,

Gloria

September 9, 2000

Hi Jessica,

I listened Ramana Maharshi's method as explained by Robert Adams on audio

tape 901223_5. The only freedom we have is to turn within. Freedom is

not to react which stops Karma. Everything else is pre-ordained. All

you can do is turn within and seek reality. Everything else will be done

to/for you. Use mind to turn off the mind. Turning within is not

pre-ordained. Turn within and do the work necessary everything else will

be taken care of. Turning within means asking who am I? You will be

guided and led. Simply turn within and ask who am I. If nothing happens

you keep repeating who am I to yourself over and over again.

This is the first time that this method made sense to me.

Thanks for the pointer.

In truth,

Victor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quoting Jessica <ellam-ondre:

Hi Victor,

I appreciate your honesty and I have been there. After I crashed (still

burning) the "saving" Grace for me was Robert Adams. www.leelaa.net . May I

suggest satsang 901223 5 . Also in that vein 900830 3. As Sandeep shared

here sometime back, some like to talk, not very many are concerned with

hauling ass... ???(Sorry Sandeep can't remember or find that old post but it

was great!) I spend a lot of my time listening to Robert. There are many

recorded satsangs posted there ( the site is always being expanded, new

satsangs and transcripts being added) He was realized; one of the real dudes

as Sandeep would say and listening is being in the presence of that

Consciousness. Quite a gift. ( his monotone voice was because he had

Parkinson's. He had a translator toward the end of the sojourn here, because

of diffculty in understanding him)

I'd actually like to suggest 901223 5 for everyone here. It blows away some

of the Advaita misconceptions that have been posted here. Interested in

hearing your two cents if you care to.

Love,

jessica

September 9, 2000

Dear Gloria,

Intellectually I agree with all that you say. And your kindness in

saying it is unbounded and deeply appreciated. Somehow I need to leap

beyond the intellect and into whatever reality may happen to be or

drop everything and be there.

Actually I am just in my usual condition hoping against hope that

grace will come up and whack me alongside the head. I could use a

lump or two to improve my appearance!

Peace and happiness,

Victor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quoting Gloria Lee <glee: