Guest guest Posted September 10, 2000 Report Share Posted September 10, 2000 On Sat, 09 Sep 2000 17:25:13 Marcia Paul wrote: >I could tell you a thing or two about self pity. >This is one of my problems. :-) > >Victor Torrico wrote: > >> This hit me in a sensitive area --- all these problems that I >> t-h-i-n-k I have. Obviously my problems are most serious and allow me >> full wallowing in self pity. Don't you feel sorry for poor little ol' >> me? Yes, of course. I know the between a rock and a hard place you describe very well. It's a hellish place. I believe Harsha is right when he describes it as a walk in the desert with no shade in sight. I have the impression though, it's not the length of time you walk (so it may not last for a long time), or where you're headed (so you can go just about any direction), but what the path gets out of you which is important. Hmm, well... Marcia, I have been a full time wallower (wallflower ?) in self pity myself. I used to really dislike seeing it in myself (and others) and of course, trying to put a lid on it, usually made it even more pronounced, and coming out in various twisted ways, which I hated even more. But then someone shared their alternative view on self pity, and especially the religious / spiritual version of it. The suggestion was to view self pity as an expression of longing, and a wish for hope, a natural attraction towards bliss ? Peace ? Whatever you feel comfortable longing towards. After a while's thinking, I had to admit I felt this was a good way to view self-pity. Nothing wrong with it. Fun to hear you like The Thin Red Line. I thought I had the film saved on my personal hard drive, but it has been undergoing some reformatting lately, so I need to rent the film and watch it one more time before writing the review. I will get to it, eventually. Love, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2000 Report Share Posted September 12, 2000 Yes, Victor, I do feel sorry for me. Love, Mark Victor Torrico wrote: > Hi all, > > This hit me in a sensitive area --- all these problems that I > t-h-i-n-k I have. Obviously my problems are most serious and allow me > > full wallowing in self pity. Don't you feel sorry for poor little ol' > > me? > > Peace and happiness, > > Victor > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >From a transcript of Robert Adams --- Dec. 2, 1990 > > http://www.leelaa.net/transcripts/901202.htm > > > Robert: It's good to be with you again. As long as you believe that > you > are the body/mind phenomena you're going to have problems. That's > that. > I don't care what kind of problems you may think you have, it makes no > > difference how severe. As long as you believe you are the body/mind > phenomena you're going to have problems. You may feel justified in > having problems. You may feel it's not your fault. You may feel it's > > karma. You may feel it's all kinds of things, but as long as you > believe > or you feel the body/mind, you will have problems, because this is the > > kind of world in which we live, the world that doesn't exist. Seems > real > to most of us. And if we believe we are the body/mind then we believe > > the world is real and we believe we have to pray to God for solutions. > > We do all these things and we still suffer. > > And suffering will only stop, not when God answers your prayers, but > when > you awaken to the truth of your own Being. Then you are born again, > so > to speak, in a new reality and all is well. But you say to me, "But > Robert, sometimes you appear to have problems too. Your karma evolved > as > it does all the time, or your physical body doesn't feel to good, or > something is going on." My question to you is this, "Who sees > this?" > There has to be a seer and an object. You're seeing yourself. When > you > catch on to your awakening the world does not change. You just see it > > differently, that's all. You acquire a feeling of immortality, a > feeling > of divine bliss, so to speak, when things no longer have the power to > affect you. In other words, in the state of enlightenment cause and > effect does not exist for you. But those who are living in the world > are > going through their karma, and they're beholding themselves everywhere > > they look. For the world, remember, is only a projection of your > mind. > > ~~ > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always > Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart > to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the > Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It > Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link > from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change > your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2000 Report Share Posted September 12, 2000 I meant to respond to this but I deleted it by mistake. The spiritual way of looking at self-pity reminds me of something I saw this weekend. For the longest time, I was getting tangled up in just what the heck did Jesus mean when he said ..."Be ye perfect even as I am." What my lower, mechanical self, kept trying to do was ask how the heck could I apply this? If I stood up, say, how would I know if I stood up perfectly? It seemed that in the material body in time/space there was no way to do things perfectly. Then it hit me that what Jesus was really saying was....BE ye perfect even as I AM. Nothing to do with doing things perfectly. I love that little shift in consciousness (is it left brain/ right brain or whole brain????) that allows me to see the inner meaning of things. I look at it as turning it inside out just like I do when I go to wash something delicate in the washing machine. You know those things that say....hand wash, do not put in machine. Ha Ha. Marcia Mark W. Otter wrote: > > Yes, Victor, > > I do feel sorry for me. > > Love, Mark > > Victor Torrico wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > This hit me in a sensitive area --- all these problems that I > > t-h-i-n-k I have. Obviously my problems are most serious and allow me > > > > full wallowing in self pity. Don't you feel sorry for poor little ol' > > > > me? > > > > Peace and happiness, > > > > Victor > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > >From a transcript of Robert Adams --- Dec. 2, 1990 > > > > http://www.leelaa.net/transcripts/901202.htm > > > > > > Robert: It's good to be with you again. As long as you believe that > > you > > are the body/mind phenomena you're going to have problems. That's > > that. > > I don't care what kind of problems you may think you have, it makes no > > > > difference how severe. As long as you believe you are the body/mind > > phenomena you're going to have problems. You may feel justified in > > having problems. You may feel it's not your fault. You may feel it's > > > > karma. You may feel it's all kinds of things, but as long as you > > believe > > or you feel the body/mind, you will have problems, because this is the > > > > kind of world in which we live, the world that doesn't exist. Seems > > real > > to most of us. And if we believe we are the body/mind then we believe > > > > the world is real and we believe we have to pray to God for solutions. > > > > We do all these things and we still suffer. > > > > And suffering will only stop, not when God answers your prayers, but > > when > > you awaken to the truth of your own Being. Then you are born again, > > so > > to speak, in a new reality and all is well. But you say to me, "But > > Robert, sometimes you appear to have problems too. Your karma evolved > > as > > it does all the time, or your physical body doesn't feel to good, or > > something is going on." My question to you is this, "Who sees > > this?" > > There has to be a seer and an object. You're seeing yourself. When > > you > > catch on to your awakening the world does not change. You just see it > > > > differently, that's all. You acquire a feeling of immortality, a > > feeling > > of divine bliss, so to speak, when things no longer have the power to > > affect you. In other words, in the state of enlightenment cause and > > effect does not exist for you. But those who are living in the world > > are > > going through their karma, and they're beholding themselves everywhere > > > > they look. For the world, remember, is only a projection of your > > mind. > > > > ~~ > > > > // > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always > > Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart > > to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the > > Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It > > Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > > www., and select the User Center link > > from the menu bar > > on the left. This menu will also let you change > > your subscription > > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2000 Report Share Posted September 12, 2000 Yum! I tend to be very literal (hee, hee), so I would wash my hands, and then not put them (my hands) in the machine. the clothes would just never get washed because I would be struggling to hard to understand the directions. It's like those pill bottles that say "Push and down turn." It's too much fun to puzzle over the meaning to leap straight to the direct action. Ah well, I suppose I enjoy arguing about physics and will never be enlightened. poor me... Love, Mark Marcia Paul wrote: > > I meant to respond to this but I deleted it by mistake. > The spiritual way of looking at self-pity reminds me > of something I saw this weekend. > > For the longest time, I was getting tangled up in just > what the heck did Jesus mean when he said ..."Be > ye perfect even as I am." > > What my lower, mechanical self, kept trying to do > was ask how the heck could I apply this? If I > stood up, say, how would I know if I stood up > perfectly? It seemed that in the material body > in time/space there was no way to do things > perfectly. Then it hit me that what Jesus > was really saying was....BE ye perfect even > as I AM. Nothing to do with doing things perfectly. > > I love that little shift in consciousness (is it left brain/ > right brain or whole brain????) that allows me to > see the inner meaning of things. I look at it as turning > it inside out just like I do when I go to wash something > delicate in the washing machine. You know those things > that say....hand wash, do not put in machine. Ha Ha. > > Marcia > > Mark W. Otter wrote: > > > > > Yes, Victor, > > > > I do feel sorry for me. > > > > Love, Mark > > > > Victor Torrico wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > This hit me in a sensitive area --- all these problems that I > > > t-h-i-n-k I have. Obviously my problems are most serious and > allow me > > > > > > full wallowing in self pity. Don't you feel sorry for poor little > ol' > > > > > > me? > > > > > > Peace and happiness, > > > > > > Victor > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > >From a transcript of Robert Adams --- Dec. 2, 1990 > > > > > > http://www.leelaa.net/transcripts/901202.htm > > > > > > > > > Robert: It's good to be with you again. As long as you believe > that > > > you > > > are the body/mind phenomena you're going to have problems. That's > > > > that. > > > I don't care what kind of problems you may think you have, it > makes no > > > > > > difference how severe. As long as you believe you are the > body/mind > > > phenomena you're going to have problems. You may feel justified > in > > > having problems. You may feel it's not your fault. You may feel > it's > > > > > > karma. You may feel it's all kinds of things, but as long as you > > > believe > > > or you feel the body/mind, you will have problems, because this is > the > > > > > > kind of world in which we live, the world that doesn't exist. > Seems > > > real > > > to most of us. And if we believe we are the body/mind then we > believe > > > > > > the world is real and we believe we have to pray to God for > solutions. > > > > > > We do all these things and we still suffer. > > > > > > And suffering will only stop, not when God answers your prayers, > but > > > when > > > you awaken to the truth of your own Being. Then you are born > again, > > > so > > > to speak, in a new reality and all is well. But you say to me, > "But > > > Robert, sometimes you appear to have problems too. Your karma > evolved > > > as > > > it does all the time, or your physical body doesn't feel to good, > or > > > something is going on." My question to you is this, "Who sees > > > this?" > > > There has to be a seer and an object. You're seeing yourself. > When > > > you > > > catch on to your awakening the world does not change. You just > see it > > > > > > differently, that's all. You acquire a feeling of immortality, a > > > feeling > > > of divine bliss, so to speak, when things no longer have the power > to > > > affect you. In other words, in the state of enlightenment cause > and > > > effect does not exist for you. But those who are living in the > world > > > are > > > going through their karma, and they're beholding themselves > everywhere > > > > > > they look. For the world, remember, is only a projection of your > > > mind. > > > > > > ~~ > > > > > > // > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > sights, > > > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in > and > > > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are > not > > > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of > the > > > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always > > > Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the > Heart > > > to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in > the > > > Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It > > > > Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > > > www., and select the User Center > link > > > from the menu bar > > > on the left. This menu will also let you change > > > > your subscription > > > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > // > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always > Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart > to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the > Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It > Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > > www., and select the User Center link > from the menu bar > > on the left. This menu will also let you change > your subscription > > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always > Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart > to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the > Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It > Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link > from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change > your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2000 Report Share Posted September 12, 2000 - Marcia Paul <jacpa --> I meant to respond to this but I deleted it by mistake. The spiritual way of looking at self-pity reminds me of something I saw this weekend. For the longest time, I was getting tangled up in just what the heck did Jesus mean when he said ..."Be ye perfect even as I am." What my lower, mechanical self, kept trying to do was ask how the heck could I apply this? If I stood up, say, how would I know if I stood up perfectly? It seemed that in the material body in time/space there was no way to do things perfectly. Then it hit me that what Jesus was really saying was....BE ye perfect even as I AM. Nothing to do with doing things perfectly. I love that little shift in consciousness (is it left brain/ right brain or whole brain????) that allows me to see the inner meaning of things. I look at it as turning it inside out just like I do when I go to wash something delicate in the washing machine. You know those things that say....hand wash, do not put in machine. Ha Ha. Marcia Dear Marcia, What I love about you is right here - how you can be so profound and funny at once. You also give me those rare opportunities to discuss Bible verses. In Matthew, just prior to this, Jesus had upped the ante on the 10 commandments, to mean observing not just the letter of the law, but the spirit as well. Then he goes on to say love as your enemies, just as God makes the sun rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and unjust. If you love only tho who love you, so what, doesn't everybody? So to be perfect as God - is to love as God does...as in be loving to all. So you are right, that really takes a shift in consciousness. Trying to "do" that might even fill me with self-pity..oops, that's where we started. Don't you think it helps at least to realize you are loved like that first, or to love yourself like that before you can love others. I seem to recall you mentioning something about that before. With love, Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2000 Report Share Posted September 13, 2000 Gloria Lee wrote: > What I love about you is right here - how you can be so profound and funny at > once. What I really love about you is your humor. :-) > You also give me those rare opportunities to discuss Bible verses. In > Matthew, just prior to this, Jesus had upped the ante on the 10 commandments, to > mean observing not just the letter of the law, but the spirit as well. Then he > goes on to say love as your enemies, just as God makes the sun rise on the evil > and the good, and sends rain on the just and unjust. If you love only tho who > love you, so what, doesn't everybody? So to be perfect as God - is to love as > God does...as in be loving to all. > > So you are right, that really takes a shift in consciousness. Trying to "do" > that might even fill me with self-pity..oops, that's where we started. Don't you > think it helps at least to realize you are loved like that first, or to love > yourself like that before you can love others. I seem to recall you mentioning > something about that before. Yes and the only thing I feel like needs a little tweaking in that statement is the 'first' and 'before' part cause I see/feel it as a simultaneous experience. As I am loved (loving myself), I love others. Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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