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Sufficient reason for Satsangh communities?

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In a message dated 9/11/00 2:51:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

carrea writes:

 

<<

A massive study has found that patients admitted to hospital with heart

trouble fare better if someone is praying for them.

None of those involved were told that people were engaging in what is known

as "intercessory prayer" on their behalf. >>

 

It's from BBC news at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_485000/485268.stm

>>

 

Thanx for providing this, Antoine. l looked at this article and feel it's

good to keep a couple things in mind. First, it was found that there were 11%

fewer complications in the group prayed for, altho they were in the hospital

the same amount of time. The article went on to note that previous studies on

the effect of intercessory prayer showed no beneficial effect upon luekemia

patients or those suffering from anxiety or depression. A previous study

with AIDS patients apparently did show a beneficial effect in preventing

infections.

l also

looked at the other article you cited from ANNALS OF INTERNAL MEDICINE. lt

cited 5 studies involving the use of intercessory prayer and found that only

2 of the 5 showed a benefit upon patients being prayed for.

 

l remember being at a retreat several years ago with Larry Dossey, a

prominent physician/author, and his raving about the results of using

intercessory prayer, then the studies he cited were later called into

question because the patients knew they were being prayed for. These later

studies have remedied that -- with mixed results that are far from dramatic

-- but still yielding some hope in this area.

l do

appreciate your providing this and hope you will provide any url's you come

across in the future. Based on what l've seen so far l'm not yet convinced.

One can certainly ask why some intercessory prayer studies show positive

results and others don't. This lack of consistency leads me to suspect some

element of chance may be involved, but l hope not, because l'd like to

believe it works.

love,

jerry

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<< Health

 

'Healing power of prayer revealed'

Research shows prayer has a beneficial effect

 

A massive study has found that patients admitted to hospital with heart

trouble fare better if someone is praying for them.

None of those involved were told that people were engaging in what is known

as "intercessory prayer" on their behalf. >>

 

It's from BBC news at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_485000/485268.stm

 

If it was proven that the way we think of others as an effect on them,

wonder if it would really change the way we think about each other. It's a

though often to heavy to bear on ones mind, so it is simply forgotten. Yet

the apparition of Satsangh communities all over the world must point to a

subtle change occurring.

 

In the times of the roman when a 1000 people or more gathered together the

distraction of gladiator was needed to maintain a illusion of peace. Today

millions will come to assist a the same event like in the Olympics, and the

violence of the distraction to maintain peace is far more less than it was

for the roman or the Greek Olympics 2000 years ago.

 

This subtle change occurring is it what some call _civilization_?

 

Or is it something else, even nothing?

 

Who knows? Some pray, others purr like a cat, for others there is the

reason of no reason,

 

Love it,

 

Antoine

 

Other studies on "distant healing" may be found at:

http://www.annals.org/issues/v132n11/full/200006060-00009.html

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> Thanx for providing this, Antoine. l looked at this article and feel

it's

> good to keep a couple things in mind. First, it was found that there were

11%

> fewer complications in the group prayed for, altho they were in the

hospital

> the same amount of time. The article went on to note that previous

studies on

> the effect of intercessory prayer showed no beneficial effect upon

luekemia

> patients or those suffering from anxiety or depression. A previous study

> with AIDS patients apparently did show a beneficial effect in preventing

> infections.

> l

also

> looked at the other article you cited from ANNALS OF INTERNAL MEDICINE.

lt

> cited 5 studies involving the use of intercessory prayer and found that

only

> 2 of the 5 showed a benefit upon patients being prayed for.

>

> l remember being at a retreat several years ago with Larry Dossey, a

> prominent physician/author, and his raving about the results of using

> intercessory prayer, then the studies he cited were later called into

> question because the patients knew they were being prayed for. These

later

> studies have remedied that -- with mixed results that are far from

dramatic

> -- but still yielding some hope in this area.

> l do

> appreciate your providing this and hope you will provide any url's you

come

> across in the future. Based on what l've seen so far l'm not yet

convinced.

> One can certainly ask why some intercessory prayer studies show positive

> results and others don't. This lack of consistency leads me to suspect

some

> element of chance may be involved, but l hope not, because l'd like to

> believe it works.

> love,

> jerry

 

Hope I will never convince of anything Jerry,

 

It is good to wake up the reflexive response that wake up the reasonable or

methodical doubt like you seem to express here.

 

It could all be chance also, and reason be nothing else than a statically

cloud.

>From the second link:

 

"We concur with Dossey (47) and others who have suggested that one solution

to this seemingly unavoidable methodologic problem in such research is to

carry out distant healing studies on nonhuman populations (such as animals

or bacteria). The findings of controlled trials of distant healing (12) in

nonhuman biological systems are provocative enough to merit further

research."

 

Always nice to watch a flower grow during a day, as to say that my watching

it as an effect on its growth that is a secret between the flower and me :)

 

Where is me?

 

So many questions...

 

Nice sleep,

 

Antoine

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