Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 Hello satsanghis ! Marcia, you quoted the following from P. Ouspensky and Ravi Ravindra "In most religious and philosophic circles in India, especially those fascinated by occult phenomena, Kundalini is give a very high valuation. But Gurdjieff has nothing positive to say about Kundalini. Having undertaken, as he himself says, "To destroy, mercilessly, without any compromises whatsoever, in the mentation and feelings of the reader, the beliefs and views, by centuries rooted in him, about everything existing in the world," he ascribes to the suggestively parallel organ "kundabuffer" the property of making human beings perceive reality topsy- turvy. Ouspnesky quotes Gurdjieff as saying: "In reality Kundalini is the power of imagination, the power of fantasy, which takes the place of a real function.... Kundalini can act in all centers and with its help all the centers can be satisfied with the imaginary instead of the real...Kundalini is a force put into men in order to keep them in their present state. If men could really see their true position and could understand all the horror of it, they would be unable to remain where they are even for one second. They would begin to seek a way out and they would quickly find it, because there is a way out; but men fail to see it simply because they are hypnotized. Kundalini is the force that keeps them in a hypnotic state. "To awaken" for man means to be "dehypnotized." Now, I'm not quite sure if you quoted Ouspensky correctly, but one thing is pretty certain, George Gurdijeff was definitely Kundalini-awakened and knew what this meant. The "organ kundabuffer" as described by G.I .Gurdijeff is that which in the Indian traditions is referred to as "Maya", the power of illusion about our true state of being. Kundalini as such however is only "Maya" in its latent and dormant state. When awakened and alive , it is the very antithesis of Maya and illusion, because it is the life energy in itself that creates and displays life as it truly is, i.e awareness of ourselves as eternal being, bliss and knowledge, the one Self, God, manifesting in a myriad variety of shapes and forms. Gurdijeff, who, along with people like Alan Watts and Osho, was one of the "rascal" gurus, wasn't very keen on spelling out reality clearly for all to see, but preferred to hide truth behind a smokescreen of difficult to understand metaphors and allegories. Gurdijeff's whole teaching was based on the concept of de-conditioning and making the human being "wake up", which in essence is nothing else than becoming aware of ourselves as units of energy and consciousness, which of course again is kundalini-yoga ! The object of the merciless criticism Gurdijeff dealt out wasn't in any way yoga or kundalini but rather the common state of "sleep" and "unawareness" that we usually spend our lives in. As for Patanjali, it is true that he never mentions kundalini. His approach to reaching the deeper state of Being, of unity and samadhi concerns the control and the discipline of the mind. But the mind is nothing else than kundalini in action ! Raja-yoga is the same as kundalini-yoga, hatha-yoga is kundalini-yoga - it's all about consciousness striving to control energy which manifests as mind and body... Kundalini can't be "removed", even if Yoga Vajnavalkya says so, since kundalini is the basic energy that creates all our consciousness. Whatever we think or feel, whatever we believe we are, whatever we perceive our ego to be, it's all the result of kundalini in action. When kundalini becomes dynamic and "awake" in our system these perceptions change and the focus becomes spiritual. There is only one energy, just as there is only one reality, one life. This energy is the kundalini which is the Great Mother of everything that has shape and form in the time/space worlds - prana from above is kundalini, prana from below is kundalini, when the focus of attention and awareness is turned towards God /Greater Self, kundalini moves upwards from the denser centers of consciousness towards the higher chakras. Hmmmh, sounds like I'm preaching, but I really and sincerely believe this to be true.... Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 In a message dated 09/19/2000 9:21:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MHortling writes: << There is only one energy, just as there is only one reality, one life. This energy is the kundalini which is the Great Mother of everything that has shape and form in the time/space worlds - prana from above is kundalini, prana from below is kundalini, when the focus of attention and awareness is turned towards God /Greater Self, kundalini moves upwards from the denser centers of consciousness towards the higher chakras. Hmmmh, sounds like I'm preaching, but I really and sincerely believe this to be true.... Michael >> Thanks Michael, it's alot closer to it than espousing that Gurdjieff believed kundalini to be imagination. You're absolutely right, he himself had kundalini awakening and spoke to those without as being totally asleep. I didn't feel like writing it all out *g* Light, Leela Play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2000 Report Share Posted September 20, 2000 Hi Michael, I see this the same as you. It just took me a year and a half to see it. I posted that a year and a half ago and Harsha posted his response that long ago. It just clicked the other day. I really feel like I have been given a gift. Between Harsha, Jan and Dan, they are making sense to me now. I really appreciate you guys. Marcia MHortling wrote: Now, I'm not quite sure if you quoted Ouspensky correctly, but one thing is > pretty certain, George Gurdijeff was definitely Kundalini-awakened and knew > what this meant. > > The "organ kundabuffer" as described by G.I .Gurdijeff is that which in the > Indian traditions is referred to as "Maya", the power of illusion about our > true state of being. Kundalini as such however is only "Maya" in its latent > and dormant state. When awakened and alive , it is the very antithesis of > Maya and illusion, because it is the life energy in itself that creates and > displays life as it truly is, i.e awareness of ourselves as eternal being, > bliss and knowledge, the one Self, God, manifesting in a myriad variety of > shapes and forms. > > Gurdijeff, who, along with people like Alan Watts and Osho, was one of the > "rascal" gurus, wasn't very keen on spelling out reality clearly for all to > see, but preferred to hide truth behind a smokescreen of difficult to > understand metaphors and allegories. > > Gurdijeff's whole teaching was based on the concept of de-conditioning and > making the human being "wake up", which in essence is nothing else than > becoming aware of ourselves as units of energy and consciousness, which of > course again is kundalini-yoga ! The object of the merciless criticism > Gurdijeff dealt out wasn't in any way yoga or kundalini but rather the common > state of "sleep" and "unawareness" that we usually spend our lives in. > > As for Patanjali, it is true that he never mentions kundalini. His approach > to reaching the deeper state of Being, of unity and samadhi concerns the > control and the discipline of the mind. But the mind is nothing else than > kundalini in action ! Raja-yoga is the same as kundalini-yoga, hatha-yoga is > kundalini-yoga - it's all about consciousness striving to control energy > which manifests as mind and body... > > Kundalini can't be "removed", even if Yoga Vajnavalkya says so, since > kundalini is the basic energy that creates all our consciousness. Whatever we > think or feel, whatever we believe we are, whatever we perceive our ego to > be, it's all the result of kundalini in action. When kundalini becomes > dynamic and "awake" in our system these perceptions change and the focus > becomes spiritual. > > There is only one energy, just as there is only one reality, one life. This > energy is the kundalini which is the Great Mother of everything that has > shape and form in the time/space worlds - prana from above is kundalini, > prana from below is kundalini, when the focus of attention and awareness is > turned towards God /Greater Self, kundalini moves upwards from the denser > centers of consciousness towards the higher chakras. > > Hmmmh, sounds like I'm preaching, but I really and sincerely believe this to > be true.... > > Michael > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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