a Dzogchen site

[Guest guest]

Morning

 

Victor posted this on another e-list, it's excellent. and it's close.

 

Victor have you been to Charlottesville to see this Monk?

 

http://www.ligmincha.org/index.html

 

L*L*L

Annette

 

What is Dzogchen

 

Just as a cloud originates from an empty sky, so all concepts and thoughts

arise in our inner space, then vanish back into its emptiness. We have to try

to understand ourselves, our true condition, to see that all our concepts and

problems arise there, abide there, and disappear there. Discovering this

condition is finding the primordial state. But in order to understand our

condition we have to go beyond concepts and thoughts. Our original condition

is thoughtless, and thought cannot touch what is beyond thought. There can be

explanation in words to introduce the state, but the explanation is not

realization of the state. Dzogchen is direct understanding, without thought,

and not distracted by thought.

 

Each individual must look within to discover the origin of thoughts. Then

when one has had the experience of this discovery, the master can introduce

and explain the state since the student has already had the experience. The

master does not introduce his own concepts to the student, but confirms and

explains what the student has discovered - thoughts arise from emptiness,

which is the true condition of the individual. Each individual has this basic

condition, which is Buddhahood. It is not something one receives or gets from

outside. This is the true condition of the individual.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 09/20/2000 8:56:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

vtorrico writes:

 

<<

Dear Rainbow Lily, (love your name)

 

Yes Tenzin and I are very good friends. He has periodic teachings in

Charlottesville at "Serenity Ridge" retreat center located just off US-29

about 25 miles south of Charlottesville. I am thinking of going to one

of his teachings concerning the five elements sometime in October.

 

For information they can be reached by email at ligmincha.aol.com and

their schedule is normally at http://www.ligmincha.org/ Their

telephone number is (804) 977-6161 and fax number (804) 977-7020.

 

It's funny, the first Bonpo retreat in the US was held on our land in

1993. There were about fifty people camped out for three weeks of glorious

teachings and practices given by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and Lopon Tenzin

Namdak the head teacher of this tradition. Kinda hectic for us since

we had only moved here three weeks before the retreat started.

 

These are the real McCoy. No bullshit here.

 

May your life be peaceful and joyous,

 

Victor

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>

Dear Victor,

 

Thank you, I enjoy your emails, they are very peaceful. I ran this by Mike,

as he has a good bull-shit-o'meter <g>. And, I loved this approach as it

appears very direct and I'm on rhetoric "wordconcept" overload.

 

I will share this with you, not as i think it is "right" or "wrong" but

simply as a response that I received from someone very steeped in knowledge

of many traditions, in their original languages. His comments have a "*."

The original comments, as you know, are not mine.

 

And, I'll add, anyone's thoughts are welcome, but I'm really not up for

debate at the moment, so, whatever you think, that Divine Bless you and

fantastic.

 

I hope your day is full of love and peace and beauty in each moment, Victor,

thank you for being part of these lists,

Annette

> Soul retrieval is a shamanic practice of the ancient indigeouness Bon

> tradition of Tibet.

*Certainly... But not only... It is found in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition

as

well and also in various of the Taoist traditions of China, not to mention

all

other systems touched by shamanism or of shamanism proper.

> The highest practice within this tradition is

> Dzogchen.

*A slightly different take on it than the Buddhist version, but extremely

profound.

> There is a living Bonpo lama located in Charlottesville,

> Virginia. His name is Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. He teaches in

> Charlottesville, the US and Europe.

*Any lama who's not dead is living.

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is not as interesting as his teacher, Lopön Tenzin

Namdag, who is quite an extraordianry old man.

The only 'cave' I'd put on this is that, if you get involved with the Bönpo

system, there are a hell of a lot of really fine lamas who'll have nothing to

do

with you (which is a pity). This polemic has been going on since Buddhism

arrived in Tibet in the 5th. c. CE... It's almost impossible to know at the

present stage of Tibetology who is right. Much that is modern-day Bön, it

must be said, WAS whipped piecemeal from the Buddhists, and it's very

difficult to know where one thing ends and another begins...

My only advice is: Buddhism is wider geographically than Bön (which is

specifically Tibetan)... This means that there is a lot more critical

dialectic

brought to bear, a lot more internal auto-criticism... but it also, of

course,

widens the field for corruption and scholastic bullshit, all of which one

finds.

[Guest guest]

Quoting Rainbolily <Rainbolily:

 

 

Dear Rainbow Lily, (love your name)

 

Yes Tenzin and I are very good friends. He has periodic teachings in

Charlottesville at "Serenity Ridge" retreat center located just off US-29

about 25 miles south of Charlottesville. I am thinking of going to one

of his teachings concerning the five elements sometime in October.

 

For information they can be reached by email at ligmincha.aol.com and

their schedule is normally at http://www.ligmincha.org/ Their

telephone number is (804) 977-6161 and fax number (804) 977-7020.

 

It's funny, the first Bonpo retreat in the US was held on our land in

1993. There were about fifty people camped out for three weeks of glorious

teachings and practices given by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and Lopon Tenzin

Namdak the head teacher of this tradition. Kinda hectic for us since

we had only moved here three weeks before the retreat started.

 

These are the real McCoy. No bullshit here.

 

May your life be peaceful and joyous,

 

Victor

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Morning

 

Victor posted this on another e-list, it's excellent. and it's close.

 

Victor have you been to Charlottesville to see this Monk?

 

http://www.ligmincha.org/index.html

 

L*L*L

Annette

 

What is Dzogchen

 

Just as a cloud originates from an empty sky, so all concepts and thoughts

arise in our inner space, then vanish back into its emptiness. We have to try

to understand ourselves, our true condition, to see that all our concepts and

problems arise there, abide there, and disappear there. Discovering this

condition is finding the primordial state. But in order to understand our

condition we have to go beyond concepts and thoughts. Our original condition

is thoughtless, and thought cannot touch what is beyond thought. There can be

explanation in words to introduce the state, but the explanation is not

realization of the state. Dzogchen is direct understanding, without thought,

and not distracted by thought.

 

Each individual must look within to discover the origin of thoughts. Then

when one has had the experience of this discovery, the master can introduce

and explain the state since the student has already had the experience. The

master does not introduce his own concepts to the student, but confirms and

explains what the student has discovered - thoughts arise from emptiness,

which is the true condition of the individual. Each individual has this basic

condition, which is Buddhahood. It is not something one receives or gets from

outside. This is the true condition of the individual.