Nondual Healing: follow-up

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:42:49 umbada wrote:

>in Mysterium Coniunctionis (p. 419-20, in a footnote)

>relates a story from Richard Wilhelm about a Taoist

>rainmaker, who said he didn't make the rain, he got himself

>"back in Tao and then naturally the rain came."

>

>Nowadays, we have the language of advaita, so many things

>are now being put into nonduality wording, but it seems no

>one is yet doing that with "healing." However, I can make a

>few conjectures. Nondual healing presupposes a profoundly

>realized grasp of Truth, or God, or the Divine. Next, it

>presupposes that the nondual healer is already past

>Awakening or Enlightenment. Then, the nondual healer can

>"get back in Tao" or "abide in the Self" or "go into

>Silence" or some other inadequate phrase.

 

Good point.

 

Taoism regards that which is called the Tao to be the ultimate truth, the

undivided That. At the same time to being That in itself, the Tao also includes

various lower energy forms, to which it is the mother; these energy forms

include the impersonal chi of nature and geographic formations, what Feng Shui

practioners work with, as well as the individualized chi, the life force of the

human body.

 

When energy of various forms come into contact, as with a hot and a cold object,

energy is always transmitted from the object with the highest energy to the

object with the lowest energy.

 

All bodies, including the human body (and mind), are, due to evolution, refined

to operate within a narrow parameter of energy loss/gain, depending on the

environment the body is adapted to. Illness may be viewed as a disruption of

optimal energy parameters of the body.

 

Could the healing powers of fully realized beings be a result of a natural

transfer of energy that has as result a reestablishment of the optimal energy

parameters of the human body ?

 

 

Love,

 

Amanda.

 

 

 

 

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Fred,

>Almost all descriptions of what is called spiritual healing

>these days, and in the past, are dualistic in conception.

>There is one person fixing another person of a specific

>condition. Regardless of how the healing process is

>languaged, there are clear elements of separation built

>into the process. In the West, only Joel Goldsmith and

>perhaps Emmet Fox speak of eliminating one's sense of self

>and one's sense of other and one's sense of condition

>(wrong or right). At least, that's all I've been able to

>find so far.

>

>Ramana Maharshi made a response to a question from Mercedes

>de Acosta (see her article on realization.org) about

>praying for others. The gist was that at the level of

>(true) prayer, there are no others and no self. "There is

>no need for prayer for yourself or any person other than to

>abide within the Self." There are also stories about him

>denying any healing ability or intent, but acknowledging

>that healings often took place around him. Also, Carl Jung,

>in Mysterium Coniunctionis (p. 419-20, in a footnote)

>relates a story from Richard Wilhelm about a Taoist

>rainmaker, who said he didn't make the rain, he got himself

>"back in Tao and then naturally the rain came."

>

>Nowadays, we have the language of advaita, so many things

>are now being put into nonduality wording, but it seems no

>one is yet doing that with "healing."

 

In healing at a distance... or in person... if you identify with the

other person (think, He and I are one, realize the oneness), you can then

see and/or feel the problem in/on your own body and heal your own body,

which is to heal his.

 

We are continually arising from and subsiding into the All... flashing

into and out of manifestation. I have been thinking that probably

instantaneous healing takes place by the body flashing back into

manifestation with its original pattern of perfect health restored or in

operation. One method: give the body to Goddess, and ask her, if she

chooses to give it back, to restore the pattern of perfect health.

 

This could also be done in a more nondualistic way, as in your examples.

In general, I find a dualistic framework easy to live with here... and

certainly easier to teach. ) But the nondualistic way should also work,

because Goddess is simply your own higher self.

>However, I can make a

>few conjectures. -snip- There

>also needs to be some sort of openness or willingness or

>receptivity on the part of the individual who is the

>non-object of the non-healing.

 

You can heal without the other person knowing it... during his sleep, for

instance. But I don't do things like that without prior permission from

the person... seems an intrusion, a violation of free will. You might be

surprised at how often someone will turn it down, not really wanting to be

healed.

 

Of course, if it happens by an instantaneous movement of the will, then

there is no waiting to ask... it's simply a movement of the spirit.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Hi Amanda,

>Taoism regards that which is called the Tao to be the ultimate truth, the

>undivided That. At the same time to being That in itself, the Tao also

>includes various lower energy forms, to which it is the mother; these

>energy forms include the impersonal chi of nature and geographic

>formations, what Feng Shui practioners work with, as well as the

>individualized chi, the life force of the human body.

>

>When energy of various forms come into contact, as with a hot and a cold

>object, energy is always transmitted from the object with the highest

>energy to the object with the lowest energy.

>

>All bodies, including the human body (and mind), are, due to evolution,

>refined to operate within a narrow parameter of energy loss/gain,

>depending on the environment the body is adapted to. Illness may be viewed

>as a disruption of optimal energy parameters of the body.

>

>Could the healing powers of fully realized beings be a result of a natural

>transfer of energy that has as result a reestablishment of the optimal

>energy parameters of the human body ?

 

Since I moved here to Cal. in early August, I have been living with another

person who also has fully active K., and it's wonderful... the "transfer"

of energy is a natural sharing without effort. When I see that Matt has K.

moving and I walk up to him and put my arms around him, it's like... well,

not like walking into a chakra, because the whole chakra system is

involved... the energy is circulating, and you just walk into that and

become part of it, and it circulates through you too...

 

I think you would be interested in Matt's account of visiting Lake Zaca

recently:

> I was reading Chumash Indian legends (the Chumash are the tribe who

>actually belong to the lands we invaded and renamed Southern

>California)and found out that Pine Mountain, a place where I have gone to

>meditate because I could feel strong energy there, was their World Axis --

>they believe the World Tree goes up to the other world from its peak. And

>a lake was mentioned, Lake Zaca, which they regarded as a portal to the

>other world.

>

>So we looked it up on the Internet and found it is up by Santa Barbara --

>about three hours drive. I and my daughter went up there last Sunday. It

>is privately owned land but they do retreats there. We paid our ten bucks

>and signed a waiver saying anything that happened to us was our own

>responsibility. That gave us open access to the lake for swimming, as well

>as a few rowboats and sailboats.

>

>The lake is a clear green body of water, small enough to row across in

>about fifteen minutes, but 360 feet deep at its deepest point. It is

>immediately adjacent to an extinct volcano. It is owned by a Mr. Koessler

>who made a pile of money as the owner of NaturePlus vitamins. He bought it

>and opened it to spiritual groups and private people "when we know who

>they are," as a sacred site. It is specifically made available as a sacred

>place. They let me in somewhat suspiciously, but George the volunteer

>custodian talked to me for quite a while to find iout what I was up to. He

>was pleased that I had come to look for a place of power because I heard

>it was a Chumash sacred site -- this is the owner's idea of appropriate

>use fort the land. He said the Indian sacred places are being opened up

>again because of a prophecy that says they must be opened and used

>actively so that connections can be established between them.

>

>It is the most astonishing place I have ever been. A fault-line runs right

>under the lake, and seven springs come up through it into the lake -- six

>cold water and one hot spring.

>>(Dharma) 7 chakras?

>There is a magnetic anomaly which drifts up and down the fault line, which

>you can find if you go out in a rowboat with a compass. But in my

>experience magnetic anomalies are power points for spiritual experience,

>so I just swam out into the center of the lake looking for it.

>

>I found myself suddenly in a cold column of water, and realized I must be

>above one of the springs. I lay on my back and floated with my eyes

>closed. Strong kundalini flowed and flowed through me. When I opened my

>eyes and floated upright I was profoundly disoriented -- down was up and

>up was sideways and the reflections of the land in the water were somehow

>also the land. I went back to floating on my back, revolving slowly in a

>spiral current of cold water coming up from the spring. I couldn't feel

>the water, I seemed to be floating in nothing, in air.

>

>My daughter also swam in it, and said she also floated and had the same

>sensation of floating not in water but in nothing at all.

>

>By the time I climbed out I could hardly stand up -- I almost fell over on

>the swimming float. In the men's room later as I was changing out of my

>bathing suit I was going to pee and then decided not to, but She said,

>"Yes, do it, you must leave something of yourself so the connection can be

>complete." Thinking vaguely of voodoo but too dazed to worry about it I

>obeyed.

>

>But the real effects came the next two days, yesterday and today. My

>kundalini has changed completely, from periodic sharp rushes of ecstasy up

>my spine and out my crown which peak and fade away, to a long flowing

>joyous centering and balance that goes on and on, so strong I have to sit

>down or I will really lose it. When it happens I can see the green water

>full of sunlight that goes down and down, all around me, so clearly, and

>once again I seem to be floating, not in water but in nothing, in

>Emptiness. In the morning I see the mist on the water in the early light.

>At night I see the water in moonlight. Once I saw a big tree, its roots

>running down to the water. Next time I go to the Lake I am going to look

>for that tree.

>

>I bet I find it.

>

>My guess is that the geological pressure at the fauilt on crystals in the

>rocks creates piezo-electricity, which in turn generates the magnetic

>anomaly, which moves to wherever the presure is strongest at the moment.

>The springs coming up through the fault pick up an electrical charge and

>carry it upwards. A swimmer floating in the column of cold water from one

>of those springs is bathed in a mild bath of electricity and floating in a

>distorted electromagnetic field.

>

>It is a mistake to think that because this can be triggered

>scientifically, it must be an illusion. I believe this is technology that

>puts us in contact with the Sacred. The Chumash knew how to use it. Lake

>Zaca was one of their telephone booths to heaven.

>

>>(Dharma)

>>Even tbough I didn't go on Sunday, the energy of the lake seems to have

>>come to me through Matt. I've been having terrific K. all week... even

>>overload problems a few times, which is rare for me nowadays... working

>>hard to keep moving it all through.

>>

>>Matt said once that it's a much fuller K. but not as sharp , and that's

>>what I find... think that's why I can take so much more.

 

We're hoping to go to Lake Zaca soon, maybe for a weekend, to celebrate our

birthdays... think we should have a designated driver to get home? ))

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Dear Fred & All,

 

First of all, I would like to preface with, I have no answers, because there

is a realization that the Truth

cannot be spoken. Having said that, I was regarded as a "healer" for many

years and healing was my spiritual

path.But now i "see", it was on the Way ~ but theWay was a breaking down of

this individual "i", who THOUGHT she was doing something. Interestingly

enough, this came about through an experience of involvement with a "Qi

Gong" Master, who received widespread notoriety in a certain country in

Europe for the thousands of healings that occurred in her presence. She

evolved from a Qi Gong Doctor to

what she called teaching "spiritual Qi Gong" which is what attracted me,

even though i was told by one of my teachers( whom I

begged to teach Spiritual Qi Gong )of the dangers of such practice.

I couldn't comprehend what he was talking about until

after the experience. I had a heart attack, leading to a nervous breakdown;

ironically i

lost my health and was literally losing my mind. : ) I smile because it was

through the

misery of that experience that I was led to Advaita, non-dualism, but only

after an

excruciating, and tormenting series of experiences. Then through Grace, I

was led to

Joel Goldsmith. I had hopes of trying to "healmyself" from the nightmare

and trauma

I had been through. But as Joel said, "God does not come to heal the dream,

He

comes to shatter it", and it was "me" that was getting shattered. When I

first heard this I

was hurled into further terror. Made myself sicker and sicker with

increasingly unbearable mental

anguish. Trying to "get" it and my mind continued "cracking" from the stress

of trying and it's wild imaginative ways. Then through Joel

I was led to Robert Adams and the advaita/non-dual perspective. Now I can

say it is

apparent that no one is doing anything to anybody. But the "shattering" was

the beginning of breaking the trance/Divine Hypnosis.

Now Awareness has shown that it's just juxtaposition of image(s) to

image(s). Healing appears to happen. There appears to be phenomena taking

place. Maya is the world of appearances/phenomena. But how to get to the

place where one "sees" through appearances? Realizes they are not a body?

nor the mind?nor the phenomena? There is no where and nothing to get. This

is all Hypnosis & conceptually explained through the non-dualistic

perspective of Advaita. But Advaita ultimately leads to going beyond

concepts and intellectual understanding. A quieting of the mind (through

methods if necessary)ultimately leads to Silence. In Silence all appearances

disappear, and there is a realization that what appears on the Relative

level is nothing other than the Self veiled and in Reality as Buddha said,

"Deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof"

 

Namaste & Love to all,

~jessica

 

 

 

 

****************************************************************************

**

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your moving story, Jessica. When my life began to shatter, I

felt much like Jonah who got a glimpse of divinity, said "NO WAY!," and

jumped into Leviathan to try to escape! Surrender has been an ongoing

challenge for me. But you're right, the more I stop resisting what is, the

more I see that healing, "enlightenment," so-called spiritiual evolution, are

all part of a process that is as natural and inevitable as an apple ripening

and falling off the tree. Holly

[Guest guest]

 

Jessica [ellam-ondre]

 

 

Dear Fred & All,

 

But Advaita ultimately leads to going beyond

concepts and intellectual understanding. A quieting of the mind (through

methods if necessary)ultimately leads to Silence. In Silence all appearances

disappear, and there is a realization that what appears on the Relative

level is nothing other than the Self veiled and in Reality as Buddha said,

"Deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof"

 

Namaste & Love to all,

~jessica

 

Thank you for sharing Jessica. That was wonderful. The shattering of the

ego-construct, the terror, and the total beauty seen in it and beyond it.

Truth is immediate and indeed difficult to speak of. It Is Our Very Being.

 

Love to all

Harsha