energy/perceptual clarity and sex

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/8/00 11:28:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

cherian writes:

 

<<

Hi Anne, JB and everybody else here,

 

This issue has been the central theme in my experience too. I've lost all

libido since my K-awakening and it's always on my mind. Its been over 6 years

now and my enforced celibacy shows no sign of letting go - I dont even know

if its a good thing anymore.

Anybody here know how to jumpstart a sleeping libido?Distance healers,

psychics,empaths...anybody, help!

 

~cherian

>>

 

Since JB posted his question about k and sex on both the k list and

Harsha's list, l'm responding on both. From the responses, JB, you can see

that you are not alone. Like cherian and others, l have basically been forced

into celibacy ever since my k awakened over 8 yrs ago, and given the fact

that l have always been strongly attracted to the opposite sex, this has

indeed been one of the most difficult aspects of my k journey.

 

For me it has included

having weaker or non-orgasms, orgasms at the 3rd eye, much less potency and

an ability to have sex far less often than before. l also feel hung over and

drained afterward, often for several days. l long ago concluded from all of

this that my body was telling me not to have sex, so l have avoided intimate

relations ever since k began. As has already been stated, there's apparently

no way of knowing how long this can last.

 

l don't want to frighten anyone, but l feel l need to add this.

lt appears that k can cause a lowering of testosterone (and presumably

estrogen) for long periods of time, which can have significant health

consequences. l was shocked to learn 2 yrs ago that l have osteoporosis.

Follow up testing revealed only one possible cause: very low testosterone,

which l'm sure was a result of k. l didn't have a single other risk factor

for the disease. So l would advise anyone in this situation to have sex

hormone levels periodically checked. lf the level is low, you may want to

consider a bone density test just to be safe.

 

As to whether one is fortunate to have celibacy enforced upon

them by k, ha ha, well, l can't say that this has been my feeling. Perhaps if

l was having blissful samadhi experiences l wouldn't miss a relationship and

sex, but since that hasn't been the case l've missed them a great deal. And

l'm not grateful for the osteoporosis. But who are we to complain or argue

with k? l'm still hopeful that it's part of God's plan for me.

 

jerry

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/00 8:16:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

harsha-hkl writes:

 

<<

Dearest Jerrysan Rinpoche. I had been thinking about you since early morning

as we have not heard from you in a few weeks. >>

 

Hello Harsha,

This has been a time in which l've both felt like being silent and have

also been engrossed in several projects related to my garden -- projects l'd

like to complete before the onset of winter.

 

l imagine the need for refocusing more energy and

attention from the list to my *stuff* is one that most of us can relate to in

some way. Hopefully this will be fruitful. ln the meantime l'll try to stay

tuned in and contribute if it feels right. Thanx for your kind thoughts.

 

 

love,

jerry

[Guest guest]

On 10/9/00 at 10:57 AM GCWein1111 wrote:

 

ºIn a message dated 10/8/00 11:28:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ºcherian writes:

º

º<<

º Hi Anne, JB and everybody else here,

º

º This issue has been the central theme in my experience too. I've lost all

ºlibido since my K-awakening and it's always on my mind. Its been over 6 years

ºnow and my enforced celibacy shows no sign of letting go - I dont even know

ºif its a good thing anymore.

º Anybody here know how to jumpstart a sleeping libido?Distance healers,

ºpsychics,empaths...anybody, help!

º

º ~cherian

º >>

º

º Since JB posted his question about k and sex on both the k list and

ºHarsha's list, l'm responding on both. From the responses, JB, you can see

ºthat you are not alone. Like cherian and others, l have basically been forced

ºinto celibacy ever since my k awakened over 8 yrs ago, and given the fact

ºthat l have always been strongly attracted to the opposite sex, this has

ºindeed been one of the most difficult aspects of my k journey.

º

º For me it has included

ºhaving weaker or non-orgasms, orgasms at the 3rd eye, much less potency and

ºan ability to have sex far less often than before. l also feel hung over and

ºdrained afterward, often for several days. l long ago concluded from all of

ºthis that my body was telling me not to have sex, so l have avoided intimate

ºrelations ever since k began. As has already been stated, there's apparently

ºno way of knowing how long this can last.

º

º l don't want to frighten anyone, but l feel l need to add this.

ºlt appears that k can cause a lowering of testosterone (and presumably

ºestrogen) for long periods of time, which can have significant health

ºconsequences. l was shocked to learn 2 yrs ago that l have osteoporosis.

ºFollow up testing revealed only one possible cause: very low testosterone,

ºwhich l'm sure was a result of k. l didn't have a single other risk factor

ºfor the disease. So l would advise anyone in this situation to have sex

ºhormone levels periodically checked. lf the level is low, you may want to

ºconsider a bone density test just to be safe.

º

º As to whether one is fortunate to have celibacy enforced upon

ºthem by k, ha ha, well, l can't say that this has been my feeling. Perhaps if

ºl was having blissful samadhi experiences l wouldn't miss a relationship and

ºsex, but since that hasn't been the case l've missed them a great deal. And

ºl'm not grateful for the osteoporosis. But who are we to complain or argue

ºwith k? l'm still hopeful that it's part of God's plan for me.

º

º jerry

 

If there is anything remarkable about the time I was a spontaneous celibate, it

was that all energy levels rocketed sky-high; sleeping was reduced to no more

than three hours, there was at least 4 hours of speedwalking a day and often

body-feelings disappeared altogether, strongly suggesting "I am indestructible

spirit". Not knowing or wanting relationships then, I can only say I loved it -

one might say to the point of addiction

 

But the moral is, unless the body is abundant with energy, there could be a

physical reason: this much can be learnt from animals, whose readiness to

reproduce shows a correlation with health. In my case, since that phase, the

energy level never went back to "before" - it remained unusually high and still

is - at least from the perspective of "ignorant" onlookers. However the body

seemed to be much more sensitive to abuse (eating unhealthy food, no regular or

to little sleep, no exercise), although it can be argued also that only the

sensitivity did increase (noticing what formerly had been escaping attention).

That is why it is important to treat the body like "a temple of God" - if there

isn't abundant energy, something is bound to be wrong and that will cause

suffering. A dead body won't "attain" moksha and the Self doesn't have to

realize anything - the mind-body has to be "spiritualized". A hint that

something is wrong is the unhappiness with the forced celibacy - when "flushed"

with Love through surrender and recognizing that, one couldn't care less for the

celibacy-issue...

 

Love,

Jan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/00 12:51:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

janb writes:

 

<<

 

But the moral is, unless the body is abundant with energy, there could be a

physical reason: this much can be learnt from animals, whose readiness to

reproduce shows a correlation with health. In my case, since that phase, the

energy level never went back to "before" - it remained unusually high and

still is - at least from the perspective of "ignorant" onlookers. However the

body seemed to be much more sensitive to abuse (eating unhealthy food, no

regular or to little sleep, no exercise), although it can be argued also that

only the sensitivity did increase (noticing what formerly had been escaping

attention). That is why it is important to treat the body like "a temple of

God" - if there isn't abundant energy, something is bound to be wrong and

that will cause suffering. A dead body won't "attain" moksha and the Self

doesn't have to realize anything - the mind-body has to be "spiritualized". A

hint that something is wrong is the unhappiness with the forced celibacy -

when "flushed" with Love through surrender and recognizing that, one couldn't

care less for the celibacy-issue...

 

Love,

Jan

>>

 

Since this appears to be directed at my post, l'll briefly comment.

First, long before, during and after my k awakening l have always treated my

body "as a temple", following a strict vegetarian diet with a strong emphasis

on whole grains and vegetables. l've always exercised regularly, gotten

plenty of rest, refrained from smoking and drinking and have been moderate in

my habits. After k l also have found that my system, which was always fairly

sensitive, has become much more so, requiring even more scrupulous habits.

 

My system lS abundant with energy --

it simply isn't manifesting in the same way as others -- and my body is far

from dead, thank you. After 8 yrs of closely observing and testing my system,

l'm also confident that there is no "physical reason". ln fact, my k is

clearly progressing.

Altho l

admit to feeling frustrated at times about celibacy and other physical

problems from k, l also remain quite hopeful about my process. My state of

mind about this fluctuates, and l'm certainly aware that it's not ideal. But

l don't accept that having some negative feelings about celibacy means

something is *wrong* with my process.

 

l used to get into discussions on the k list in

which some whose k experience was going better than others' would use their

experience as proof that they had the answers for others, assuming that those

whose process was more difficult were obviously doing something wrong or

just didn't get it in some way. l'm not looking for another such discussion.

l'll just say that l disagree.

 

jerry

[Guest guest]

On 10/10/00 at 1:01 AM GCWein1111 wrote:

 

ºIn a message dated 10/9/00 12:51:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ºjanb writes:

º

º<<

º

º But the moral is, unless the body is abundant with energy, there could be a

ºphysical reason: this much can be learnt from animals, whose readiness to

ºreproduce shows a correlation with health. In my case, since that phase, the

ºenergy level never went back to "before" - it remained unusually high and

ºstill is - at least from the perspective of "ignorant" onlookers. However the

ºbody seemed to be much more sensitive to abuse (eating unhealthy food, no

ºregular or to little sleep, no exercise), although it can be argued also that

ºonly the sensitivity did increase (noticing what formerly had been escaping

ºattention). That is why it is important to treat the body like "a temple of

ºGod" - if there isn't abundant energy, something is bound to be wrong and

ºthat will cause suffering. A dead body won't "attain" moksha and the Self

ºdoesn't have to realize anything - the mind-body has to be "spiritualized". A

ºhint that something is wrong is the unhappiness with the forced celibacy -

ºwhen "flushed" with Love through surrender and recognizing that, one couldn't

ºcare less for the celibacy-issue...

º

º Love,

º Jan

º >>

º

º Since this appears to be directed at my post, l'll briefly comment.

ºFirst, long before, during and after my k awakening l have always treated my

ºbody "as a temple", following a strict vegetarian diet with a strong emphasis

ºon whole grains and vegetables. l've always exercised regularly, gotten

ºplenty of rest, refrained from smoking and drinking and have been moderate in

ºmy habits. After k l also have found that my system, which was always fairly

ºsensitive, has become much more so, requiring even more scrupulous habits.

 

 

Your diet could suggest the use of cooked food - that always is less than

optimal. If the system is sensitive, that can be an advantage as well, being

able to notice a change that otherwise wouldn't be noticed. Being accustomed to

raw food, my body would revolt on cooked grains and vitality would be drained

considerably, although before, it seemed that cooked stuff was OK... And an

active K. to become aware of that isn't a requirement, as for instance all

fruitarians made that discovery.

 

º

º My system lS abundant with energy --

ºit simply isn't manifesting in the same way as others -- and my body is far

ºfrom dead, thank you. After 8 yrs of closely observing and testing my system,

ºl'm also confident that there is no "physical reason". ln fact, my k is

ºclearly progressing.

 

When using K. rising as a "progress-meter", the specifics are important, for

instance when experiencing strong emotions, which chakra is felt simultaneously,

the flows of energy through the nadis, the "width" of - and tension in - the

nadis etc.

 

º Altho l

ºadmit to feeling frustrated at times about celibacy and other physical

ºproblems from k, l also remain quite hopeful about my process. My state of

ºmind about this fluctuates, and l'm certainly aware that it's not ideal. But

ºl don't accept that having some negative feelings about celibacy means

ºsomething is *wrong* with my process.

 

"Wrong" is a term used to force one into contemplation. Because K. could be

called the alpha and omega of the book of Love and Love sooner or later

implicates unconditional surrender. One of the "marks" of unconditional

surrender is that the harder one is "beaten up", the stronger Love is felt - so

instead of experiencing negative feelings one would probably writing heartfelt

devotional poems.

º

º l used to get into discussions on the k list in

ºwhich some whose k experience was going better than others' would use their

ºexperience as proof that they had the answers for others, assuming that those

ºwhose process was more difficult were obviously doing something wrong or

ºjust didn't get it in some way. l'm not looking for another such discussion.

ºl'll just say that l disagree.

º

º jerry

 

In the terminology of the NT, K. is the Holy Spirit, the Supreme Consolator who

heals all wounds. If pain is experienced, it means healing is difficult -

nothing else. "Doing something wrong" isn't the proper expression, for more than

one reason. Unless one becomes conscious of a block, healing cannot occur and

this could be called one of the pitfalls of a solitary life... Not recommended,

unless upbringing and education did NOT result in a "brick wall" of

conditioning.

 

Love,

Jan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/10/00 2:54:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

janb writes:

 

<<

Your diet could suggest the use of cooked food - that always is less than

optimal. If the system is sensitive, that can be an advantage as well, being

able to notice a change that otherwise wouldn't be noticed. Being accustomed

to raw food, my body would revolt on cooked grains and vitality would be

drained considerably, although before, it seemed that cooked stuff was OK...

And an active K. to become aware of that isn't a requirement, as for instance

all fruitarians made that discovery.

 

 

 

(J) An eminent swami from Rishikesh who's a noted authority on k told me

some years ago that k active people should refrain from raw foods and should

stick to a diet consisting primarily of cooked foods. lt so happens that my

system has trouble with raw foods, but as far as expert advice on nutrition

for k experiencers is concerned, l've learned that for me, my body is the

only reliable teacher.

 

 

 

"Wrong" is a term used to force one into contemplation. Because K. could be

called the alpha and omega of the book of Love and Love sooner or later

implicates unconditional surrender. One of the "marks" of unconditional

surrender is that the harder one is "beaten up", the stronger Love is felt -

so instead of experiencing negative feelings one would probably writing

heartfelt devotional poems.

 

(J) Who needs to be forced into

contemplation? l don't claim to be in a state of unconditional surrender,

but that doesn't mean that l don't understand it or that l need to be

lectured about it. The presence of devotion and heartfelt love doesn't

necessarily mean the absence of negative feelings and doesn't always result

in devotional poems.

 

 

In the terminology of the NT, K. is the Holy Spirit, the Supreme Consolator

who heals all wounds. If pain is experienced, it means healing is difficult -

nothing else. "Doing something wrong" isn't the proper expression, for more

than one reason. Unless one becomes conscious of a block, healing cannot

occur and this could be called one of the pitfalls of a solitary life... Not

recommended, unless upbringing and education did NOT result in a "brick wall"

of conditioning.

 

Love,

Jan

 

(J) l essentially agree with the above paragraph but would add that in

addition to the "brick wall" of the struggling aspirant there is also the

"brick wall" of the arrogant would-be teacher.

 

jerry

[Guest guest]

I don't have much to add to this discussion but I have

found it very helpful. I have noticed that I am finding

cooked food almost repulsive but I didn't know why.

 

I have almost a continual feeling of pressure (not unpleasant)

in my crown area and sometimes it feels like a rod connected

to the back of my head and my throat. I notice lots of times

as I settle into meditation I have sort of mini convulsions around

my throat area. I used to cough but now I try to let the convulsions

work themselves out and fairly soon I seem to get behind this

difficulty if you know what I mean and then the energy seems

very fine and unblocked but there still is pressure in the crown

area.

 

In terms of lack of interest in sex I was blaming my husband

for that. :-) This is not unusual as I blame him for most of

my difficulties anyway. This discussion is making his life a

little easier.

 

Marcia

 

jb wrote:

> On 10/10/00 at 1:01 AM GCWein1111 wrote:

>

> ºIn a message dated 10/9/00 12:51:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> ºjanb writes:

> º

> º<<

> º

> º But the moral is, unless the body is abundant with energy, there could be a

> ºphysical reason: this much can be learnt from animals, whose readiness to

> ºreproduce shows a correlation with health. In my case, since that phase, the

> ºenergy level never went back to "before" - it remained unusually high and

> ºstill is - at least from the perspective of "ignorant" onlookers. However the

> ºbody seemed to be much more sensitive to abuse (eating unhealthy food, no

> ºregular or to little sleep, no exercise), although it can be argued also that

> ºonly the sensitivity did increase (noticing what formerly had been escaping

> ºattention). That is why it is important to treat the body like "a temple of

> ºGod" - if there isn't abundant energy, something is bound to be wrong and

> ºthat will cause suffering. A dead body won't "attain" moksha and the Self

> ºdoesn't have to realize anything - the mind-body has to be "spiritualized". A

> ºhint that something is wrong is the unhappiness with the forced celibacy -

> ºwhen "flushed" with Love through surrender and recognizing that, one couldn't

> ºcare less for the celibacy-issue...

> º

> º Love,

> º Jan

> º >>

> º

> º Since this appears to be directed at my post, l'll briefly comment.

> ºFirst, long before, during and after my k awakening l have always treated my

> ºbody "as a temple", following a strict vegetarian diet with a strong emphasis

> ºon whole grains and vegetables. l've always exercised regularly, gotten

> ºplenty of rest, refrained from smoking and drinking and have been moderate in

> ºmy habits. After k l also have found that my system, which was always fairly

> ºsensitive, has become much more so, requiring even more scrupulous habits.

>

> Your diet could suggest the use of cooked food - that always is less than

optimal. If the system is sensitive, that can be an advantage as well, being

able to notice a change that otherwise wouldn't be noticed. Being accustomed to

raw food, my body would revolt on cooked grains and vitality would be drained

considerably, although before, it seemed that cooked stuff was OK... And an

active K. to become aware of that isn't a requirement, as for instance all

fruitarians made that discovery.

>

> º

> º My system lS abundant with energy --

> ºit simply isn't manifesting in the same way as others -- and my body is far

> ºfrom dead, thank you. After 8 yrs of closely observing and testing my system,

> ºl'm also confident that there is no "physical reason". ln fact, my k is

> ºclearly progressing.

>

> When using K. rising as a "progress-meter", the specifics are important, for

instance when experiencing strong emotions, which chakra is felt simultaneously,

the flows of energy through the nadis, the "width" of - and tension in - the

nadis etc.

>

> º Altho l

> ºadmit to feeling frustrated at times about celibacy and other physical

> ºproblems from k, l also remain quite hopeful about my process. My state of

> ºmind about this fluctuates, and l'm certainly aware that it's not ideal. But

> ºl don't accept that having some negative feelings about celibacy means

> ºsomething is *wrong* with my process.

>

> "Wrong" is a term used to force one into contemplation. Because K. could be

called the alpha and omega of the book of Love and Love sooner or later

implicates unconditional surrender. One of the "marks" of unconditional

surrender is that the harder one is "beaten up", the stronger Love is felt - so

instead of experiencing negative feelings one would probably writing heartfelt

devotional poems.

> º

> º l used to get into discussions on the k list in

> ºwhich some whose k experience was going better than others' would use their

> ºexperience as proof that they had the answers for others, assuming that those

> ºwhose process was more difficult were obviously doing something wrong or

> ºjust didn't get it in some way. l'm not looking for another such discussion.

> ºl'll just say that l disagree.

> º

> º jerry

>

> In the terminology of the NT, K. is the Holy Spirit, the Supreme Consolator

who heals all wounds. If pain is experienced, it means healing is difficult -

nothing else. "Doing something wrong" isn't the proper expression, for more than

one reason. Unless one becomes conscious of a block, healing cannot occur and

this could be called one of the pitfalls of a solitary life... Not recommended,

unless upbringing and education did NOT result in a "brick wall" of

conditioning.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/10/2000 8:45:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

janb writes:

 

<<

Funny relationship you must have ) What may be difficult to digest is that

K. has the potential to bring out

all the "yuck" without one being the least aware of that and the resulting

unpleasantness is reflected by the environment,

in the same way that a full stomach will spoil the appetite for the

tastiest food whether one knows the stomach is full or not (the food can't

help your stomach is full).

So now you can make his life even more easy

 

Love,

Jan

>>

Interestingly, I just read that, called Varjanas, (?) the demons of the

 

"Shadow" which remain suppressed until we grow conscious and then

 

we have to cope with their emergence...

 

I think when the crown is firing very hard, and the point above the

 

twin pillars (at the top of the ropy muscles at the back of your neck)

 

fire ... the fire is too high to feel sexual stimulation .. in other words,

 

it seems that the k has moved up from the sexual organs...

 

(Harsha, must be time for that drink ... kidding, kinda)

 

Love and Light

 

Anna Maria

[Guest guest]

On 10/10/00 at 8:55 AM Marcia Paul wrote:

 

ºI don't have much to add to this discussion but I have

ºfound it very helpful. I have noticed that I am finding

ºcooked food almost repulsive but I didn't know why.

 

Without additions like salt, spices, sugar etc., cooked food is far less tasty

than raw.

That is the reason why cooking has evolved to an art )

Your taste has to be natural...

º

ºI have almost a continual feeling of pressure (not unpleasant)

ºin my crown area and sometimes it feels like a rod connected

ºto the back of my head and my throat. I notice lots of times

ºas I settle into meditation I have sort of mini convulsions around

ºmy throat area. I used to cough but now I try to let the convulsions

ºwork themselves out and fairly soon I seem to get behind this

ºdifficulty if you know what I mean and then the energy seems

ºvery fine and unblocked but there still is pressure in the crown

ºarea.

 

The crown area is a kind of "terra incognita", there are centers, nowhere

mentioned in the official literature.

One is what I call the center of identification - also the seat of breath. From

there, one can feel nadis going via the throat

to the heart at the right, the one "on axis" and the physical one, the "regular"

centers "below" plus the second one "off axis"

and to several other centers in the crown (temples among others) and by no means

is this description complete

Where "basic" identifications (like breathing) are involved, nadis will feel

like wires of steel and some centers

will feel "hard" like concrete

 

ºIn terms of lack of interest in sex I was blaming my husband

ºfor that. :-) This is not unusual as I blame him for most of

ºmy difficulties anyway. This discussion is making his life a

ºlittle easier.

º

ºMarcia

 

Funny relationship you must have ) What may be difficult to digest is that K.

has the potential to bring out

all the "yuck" without one being the least aware of that and the resulting

unpleasantness is reflected by the environment,

in the same way that a full stomach will spoil the appetite for the tastiest

food whether one knows the stomach is full or not (the food can't help your

stomach is full).

So now you can make his life even more easy

 

Love,

Jan

[Guest guest]

On 10/10/00 at 9:44 PM Rainbolily wrote:

 

ºIn a message dated 10/10/2000 8:45:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ºjanb writes:

º

º<<

º Funny relationship you must have ) What may be difficult to digest is that

ºK. has the potential to bring out

º all the "yuck" without one being the least aware of that and the resulting

ºunpleasantness is reflected by the environment,

º in the same way that a full stomach will spoil the appetite for the

ºtastiest food whether one knows the stomach is full or not (the food can't

ºhelp your stomach is full).

º So now you can make his life even more easy

º

º Love,

º Jan

º

º >>

ºInterestingly, I just read that, called Varjanas, (?) the demons of the

º

º"Shadow" which remain suppressed until we grow conscious and then

º

ºwe have to cope with their emergence...

º

ºI think when the crown is firing very hard, and the point above the

º

ºtwin pillars (at the top of the ropy muscles at the back of your neck)

º

ºfire ... the fire is too high to feel sexual stimulation .. in other words,

º

ºit seems that the k has moved up from the sexual organs...

º

º(Harsha, must be time for that drink ... kidding, kinda)

º

ºLove and Light

º

º Anna Maria

 

A rather simple explanation for the temporary disappearance of libido is that

the work done - making the mind-body fit for the unbroken "experience" of

nonduality* - is the default preference of nature. When the proverbial nectar is

flowing from the crown center without a break, the celibacy issue not only is

moot, all practice has ended, and responsiveness has become natural (without the

former "ego" filter). Nonduality doesn't imply the extinction of the human race

 

*From another perspective one might say, that the work done will prevent the

mind-body (and its vicissitudes) from veiling (never absent) nonduality. So here

too, once "factual" nonduality is established, it is clear that the celibacy

issue won't influence the "experience" of nonduality one bit...And it is in

agreement with a statement by the Buddha on the issue of "nirvana with

substratum remaining".

 

Love,

Jan

[Guest guest]

<GCWein1111

 

: (J) l've learned that for me, my body is the

: only reliable teacher.

: jerry

 

This is pure gold, the VITRIOL necessary for making the philosophical gold

would say some.

http://pages.infinit.net/carrea/tree/tarot/zen015.htm

 

Where stops the body of one is another question...

 

Antoine