Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Dear Harsha, You seem to attach a unique meaning to the word "Heart" (e.g. the depth of the Heart,the Original Face is the Heart). Please forgive my ignorance by asking you, "What does it really refer to?" Than you for your enlightening answer! Love/Andy als sentto-73173-11419-971293569-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) [sentto-73173-11419-971293569-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) ] On Behalf Of Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:40 AM NondualitySalon ; Buddhism versus Advaita The difference is only in the words, not in the experience or in understanding of sages whose insight reaches the depth of the Heart. The diversity and unity are seen to be the same in the highest stage. Because most teachers speak from the understanding of partial truth and hence ignorance, they are overpowered by doubt. Spiritual insecurity leads to taking of hard positions, and attempting to defend the indefensible. Hence, arguments and strife is the inevitable result between religions and gurus and religious teachers. Are they not victims of their own immaturity? Blind leading the blind is truly the center of the spiritual circus. The debate on who has the ultimate truth is a false debate. The debate on what are the proper words to describe the ultimate reality (Self or Shunya or Buddha Nature) is predicated on not having the True Insight. It is a false debate without any foundation! Truth cannot be possessed by any tradition, religion, country, person, guru, etc. When we speak of Buddha Nature or the Original Nature, do we speak of nothingness or NO-Thing-Ness? The Original Face is the Heart. It is empty of all things, concepts, images, relationships, and is the end of all experiences. Yet, time and space are born from it and the mind with the tendency to experience and imagine sprouts from there. The Original Nature Is Truly the Fullness of Emptiness. It Is the Mother that gives rise to all things. It is the Womb from which the Universe is born. All these notions of no-self and self and Buddha nature are concepts only and empty in themselves without any meaning whatsoever other than what we give it. In order to communicate, words have to be used to indicate the experience of Reality. What ever term one uses to describe THAT, It Is What It is. Call it God, God Consciousness, or the Self, or the non-self or Shunya or Buddha Nature, The Mother, The Great Way, etc. It Is That What Has Always Been Here. What Is That, That Is Always With You. Is it anything different from you? Love Harsha umbada [umbada] Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:22 PM nondualitysalon ; [NDS] Buddhism versus Advaita The following letter was received. I'll forward responses to the author: --Jerry ------------------------ Advaitists claim that there is a "Self" which is "absolute", but the Buddhists deny any thing "absolute" therefore denying a "Self" but they speak of "Buddha nature". However, both believe in Liberation or Enlightenment so are they different Enlightenments (scince one says "absolute" and the other doesnt), or are "Self" and "Buddha nature" really the same thing? I'm confused as to which path to follow if both are really different. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. // All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Dear Pak Andy, I'm sure you are an Indonesian :-) Apa khabar? I'm in Indonesia too, in Pekanbaru, Riau Province. So where do you live? I'm glad to know that there is a man from the same country in this list :-) What a small world. :-) Harshaji is really wiseful, his words of wisdom has a deep meaning that I still can't reach. My interpretation to the word "Heart" he mentioned is The Ultimate Truth, God, or anything we like to name IT. I'd be glad if you wish to share a story about your experiences or anything you like. With Love, Nasir > ---------- > Andy Lesmana Sastrahadijaya[sMTP:als] > Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:32 AM > > RE: the Heart > > Dear Harsha, > > You seem to attach a unique meaning to the word "Heart" (e.g. the depth of > the Heart,the Original Face is the Heart). Please forgive my ignorance by > asking you, "What does it really refer to?" > Than you for your enlightening answer! > > Love/Andy > als > > > sentto-73173-11419-971293569-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) > [sentto-73173-11419-971293569-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) ] > On Behalf Of Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) > Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:40 AM > NondualitySalon ; > Buddhism versus Advaita > > > The difference is only in the words, not in the experience or in > understanding of sages whose insight reaches the depth of the Heart. The > diversity and unity are seen to be the same in the highest stage. Because > most teachers speak from the understanding of partial truth and hence > ignorance, they are overpowered by doubt. Spiritual insecurity leads to > taking of hard positions, and attempting to defend the indefensible. > Hence, > arguments and strife is the inevitable result between religions and gurus > and religious teachers. Are they not victims of their own immaturity? > Blind > leading the blind is truly the center of the spiritual circus. > > The debate on who has the ultimate truth is a false debate. The debate on > what are the proper words to describe the ultimate reality (Self or Shunya > or Buddha Nature) is predicated on not having the True Insight. It is a > false debate without any foundation! Truth cannot be possessed by any > tradition, religion, country, person, guru, etc. When we speak of Buddha > Nature or the Original Nature, do we speak of nothingness or > NO-Thing-Ness? > The Original Face is the Heart. It is empty of all things, concepts, > images, > relationships, and is the end of all experiences. Yet, time and space are > born from it and the mind with the tendency to experience and imagine > sprouts from there. The Original Nature Is Truly the Fullness of > Emptiness. > It Is the Mother that gives rise to all things. It is the Womb from which > the Universe is born. > > All these notions of no-self and self and Buddha nature are concepts only > and empty in themselves without any meaning whatsoever other than what we > give it. In order to communicate, words have to be used to indicate the > experience of Reality. What ever term one uses to describe THAT, It Is > What > It is. Call it God, God Consciousness, or the Self, or the non-self or > Shunya or Buddha Nature, The Mother, The Great Way, etc. It Is That What > Has > Always Been Here. What Is That, That Is Always With You. Is it anything > different from you? > > Love > Harsha > > > umbada [umbada] > Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:22 PM > nondualitysalon ; > [NDS] Buddhism versus Advaita > > > The following letter was received. I'll forward responses to the author: > > --Jerry > ------------------------ > > Advaitists claim that there is a "Self" which is "absolute", but the > Buddhists deny any thing "absolute" therefore denying a "Self" but they > speak of "Buddha nature". However, both believe in Liberation or > Enlightenment so are they different Enlightenments (scince one says > "absolute" and the other doesnt), or are "Self" and "Buddha nature" > really > the same thing? I'm confused as to which path to follow if both are > really > different. > > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of > Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the > menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. > It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the > Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of > Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome > all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 Dear Mr. Nasir Chang, Thank you for your message. Are you an Indonesian, too? :-) I am also glad to have you as the member of this wonderful list. Where do I live? Well, I live at a small town, Bekasi. When you go to Jakarta you can give me a call and we a "chat" about spiritual stuffs, right? I would like to share with you my stories. But I do not really know which one you like bacause I have so many stories since bygone days. Since I am a beginner in this spiritual path, why don't you start first? :-) Best regards/Andy als 0818183731 (021)8204411 sentto-73173-11431-971324687-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) [sentto-73173-11431-971324687-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) ] On Behalf Of Nasir Chang Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:13 AM ' ' RE: RE: the Heart Dear Pak Andy, I'm sure you are an Indonesian :-) Apa khabar? I'm in Indonesia too, in Pekanbaru, Riau Province. So where do you live? I'm glad to know that there is a man from the same country in this list :-) What a small world. :-) Harshaji is really wiseful, his words of wisdom has a deep meaning that I still can't reach. My interpretation to the word "Heart" he mentioned is The Ultimate Truth, God, or anything we like to name IT. I'd be glad if you wish to share a story about your experiences or anything you like. With Love, Nasir > ---------- > Andy Lesmana Sastrahadijaya[sMTP:als] > Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:32 AM > > RE: the Heart > > Dear Harsha, > > You seem to attach a unique meaning to the word "Heart" (e.g. the depth of > the Heart,the Original Face is the Heart). Please forgive my ignorance by > asking you, "What does it really refer to?" > Than you for your enlightening answer! > > Love/Andy > als > > > sentto-73173-11419-971293569-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) > [sentto-73173-11419-971293569-als=cbn.net.id (AT) returns (DOT) ] > On Behalf Of Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) > Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:40 AM > NondualitySalon ; > Buddhism versus Advaita > > > The difference is only in the words, not in the experience or in > understanding of sages whose insight reaches the depth of the Heart. The > diversity and unity are seen to be the same in the highest stage. Because > most teachers speak from the understanding of partial truth and hence > ignorance, they are overpowered by doubt. Spiritual insecurity leads to > taking of hard positions, and attempting to defend the indefensible. > Hence, > arguments and strife is the inevitable result between religions and gurus > and religious teachers. Are they not victims of their own immaturity? > Blind > leading the blind is truly the center of the spiritual circus. > > The debate on who has the ultimate truth is a false debate. The debate on > what are the proper words to describe the ultimate reality (Self or Shunya > or Buddha Nature) is predicated on not having the True Insight. It is a > false debate without any foundation! Truth cannot be possessed by any > tradition, religion, country, person, guru, etc. When we speak of Buddha > Nature or the Original Nature, do we speak of nothingness or > NO-Thing-Ness? > The Original Face is the Heart. It is empty of all things, concepts, > images, > relationships, and is the end of all experiences. Yet, time and space are > born from it and the mind with the tendency to experience and imagine > sprouts from there. The Original Nature Is Truly the Fullness of > Emptiness. > It Is the Mother that gives rise to all things. It is the Womb from which > the Universe is born. > > All these notions of no-self and self and Buddha nature are concepts only > and empty in themselves without any meaning whatsoever other than what we > give it. In order to communicate, words have to be used to indicate the > experience of Reality. What ever term one uses to describe THAT, It Is > What > It is. Call it God, God Consciousness, or the Self, or the non-self or > Shunya or Buddha Nature, The Mother, The Great Way, etc. It Is That What > Has > Always Been Here. What Is That, That Is Always With You. Is it anything > different from you? > > Love > Harsha > > > umbada [umbada] > Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:22 PM > nondualitysalon ; > [NDS] Buddhism versus Advaita > > > The following letter was received. I'll forward responses to the author: > > --Jerry > ------------------------ > > Advaitists claim that there is a "Self" which is "absolute", but the > Buddhists deny any thing "absolute" therefore denying a "Self" but they > speak of "Buddha nature". However, both believe in Liberation or > Enlightenment so are they different Enlightenments (scince one says > "absolute" and the other doesnt), or are "Self" and "Buddha nature" > really > the same thing? I'm confused as to which path to follow if both are > really > different. > > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of > Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the > menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. > It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the > Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of > Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome > all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > // All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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